Because lga weather was below forecast minimums a crew refused to fly even as dispatch attempted to ...

Narrative:

I felt the need to write this report because we could have departed to a destination that was forecast to be below landing minimums and was feeling pressured by a dispatcher that did not understand the rules for exemption 3585. We did not depart but we heard that there might have been some diversions because of this. Our long delay started with a return to the gate because of the early arrival of the snow storm at lga. I kept in touch with our dispatcher; getting updates throughout the day. During our long wait I looked at the approach plates for lga and noticed that wind conditions allowed runway 4 for the lowest minimum of 3/4 of a mile. I kept this in mind for later. We were given a wheels up time by ATC which was past our duty limit but was told by the dispatcher to standby in hope of a better time. The time was updated; and things were going to get busy because our wheels up time was now in 30 minutes; I re-analyzed the weather and found that our long delay brought us into a new time period in the forecast weather; 3/4 mile with a chance of 1/4 and strong northerly winds. I told the first officer that we were probably not legal to depart and after looking at the forecast; he agreed. I called the dispatcher and told him we were not legal to depart because of the 1/4 and he disagreed; saying we were legal because of the CAT 2 approach at lga. I reminded him that there was no CAT 2 in lga and the wind was too strong to land on runway 22 anyway even with the CAT 1. He said wind did not matter. I told him at least we needed a second alternate and as soon as I looked at the amended release I would call him back. The new release was delivered and the forecast did not change so I called the dispatcher again and told him we were not legal. Again he strongly disagreed and said it was time to get the chief pilot involved. After a short time the matter was settled. The flight canceled. There was a strong apology from the dispatcher. I felt pressured by this dispatcher to launch. His assertiveness could have easily persuaded me if I hadn't gotten out the manual to check. Great CRM from the first officer; offering his manual already highlighted and ready for reference. Maybe this needs to be covered again from time to time for dispatchers and pilots as it is a quite complex rule. I wonder how many planes launched illegally to lga that night.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: Because LGA weather was below forecast minimums a crew refused to fly even as Dispatch attempted to employ Exception 3585. Because no CAT I or CAT II approaches were available the flight was canceled.

Narrative: I felt the need to write this report because we could have departed to a destination that was forecast to be below landing minimums and was feeling pressured by a Dispatcher that did not understand the rules for Exemption 3585. We did not depart but we heard that there might have been some diversions because of this. Our long delay started with a return to the gate because of the early arrival of the snow storm at LGA. I kept in touch with our Dispatcher; getting updates throughout the day. During our long wait I looked at the approach plates for LGA and noticed that wind conditions allowed Runway 4 for the lowest minimum of 3/4 of a mile. I kept this in mind for later. We were given a wheels up time by ATC which was past our duty limit but was told by the Dispatcher to standby in hope of a better time. The time was updated; and things were going to get busy because our wheels up time was now in 30 minutes; I re-analyzed the weather and found that our long delay brought us into a new time period in the forecast weather; 3/4 mile with a chance of 1/4 and strong northerly winds. I told the First Officer that we were probably not legal to depart and after looking at the forecast; he agreed. I called the Dispatcher and told him we were not legal to depart because of the 1/4 and he disagreed; saying we were legal because of the CAT 2 approach at LGA. I reminded him that there was no CAT 2 in LGA and the wind was too strong to land on Runway 22 anyway even with the CAT 1. He said wind did not matter. I told him at least we needed a second alternate and as soon as I looked at the amended release I would call him back. The new release was delivered and the forecast did not change so I called the Dispatcher again and told him we were not legal. Again he strongly disagreed and said it was time to get the Chief Pilot involved. After a short time the matter was settled. The flight canceled. There was a strong apology from the Dispatcher. I felt pressured by this Dispatcher to launch. His assertiveness could have easily persuaded me if I hadn't gotten out the manual to check. Great CRM from the First Officer; offering his manual already highlighted and ready for reference. Maybe this needs to be covered again from time to time for dispatchers and pilots as it is a quite complex rule. I wonder how many planes launched illegally to LGA that night.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Attributes
ACN	978044
Time
Date	201110
Local Time Of Day	1201-1800
Place
Locale Reference	ZZZ.Airport
State Reference	US
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Make Model Name	Regional Jet 700 ER/LR (CRJ700)
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	Parked
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Function	Captain Pilot Flying
Qualification	Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP)
Events
Anomaly	Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Procedural FAR

Because lga weather was below forecast minimums a crew refused to fly even as dispatch attempted to employ exception 3585. Because no CAT I or CAT ii approaches were available the flight was canceled.