|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1201 To 1800|
|Locale Reference||atc facility : det|
|Altitude||agl bound lower : 0|
agl bound upper : 0
|Controlling Facilities||tower : sfo|
|Operator||general aviation : corporate|
|Make Model Name||Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng|
|Flight Phase||ground other : taxi|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 120|
flight time total : 4200
flight time type : 800
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : commercial|
pilot : instrument
|Anomaly||incursion : runway|
other anomaly other
|Independent Detector||other controllera|
|Resolutory Action||none taken : unable|
|Air Traffic Incident||Pilot Deviation|
After being cleared to taxi to runway 33 (at det), we departed the butler aviation ramp and taxied and held short of runway 33. Immediately ground control told us to hold our position and said we had taxied beyond the hold line by about 10'. Neither of the crew had seen the hold line and we were still clear of the runway. One aircraft landed while we were holding our position, and we were then cleared for takeoff west/O any further comments from the controllers. After a post flight discussion by the crew, we agreed that part of the cause was the short taxi distance from the butler ramp to runway 33 in which we were busy doing checklists and not paying proper attention to taxi. But we also feel that a potentially dangerous situation exists in that area of the airport, because the butler aviation ramp borders runway 25-7 and is very near runway 33 approach end. The taxi and parking areas are confusingly marked (especially to unfamiliar users), and as I have proved by my own error, a wrong move at this end of the airport, with the ramp and runways blending together, and you could easily find yourself sitting directly in the path of an approaching or departing aircraft. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter states recent move of butler aviation to old terminal area has created problems for those unfamiliar with area. No signs are used to direct aircraft, just painted lines. Hold line for runway 33 is very close to bldg--ramp area. Crew saw another aircraft holding closer to runway 33 on an uphill taxi ramp. Thought hold line must be there. Were just a few ft beyond hold line when ground called them. Created no problem for landing traffic.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: TAXIED BEYOND HOLD LINE.
Narrative: AFTER BEING CLRED TO TAXI TO RWY 33 (AT DET), WE DEPARTED THE BUTLER AVIATION RAMP AND TAXIED AND HELD SHORT OF RWY 33. IMMEDIATELY GND CTL TOLD US TO HOLD OUR POS AND SAID WE HAD TAXIED BEYOND THE HOLD LINE BY ABOUT 10'. NEITHER OF THE CREW HAD SEEN THE HOLD LINE AND WE WERE STILL CLR OF THE RWY. ONE ACFT LANDED WHILE WE WERE HOLDING OUR POS, AND WE WERE THEN CLRED FOR TKOF W/O ANY FURTHER COMMENTS FROM THE CTLRS. AFTER A POST FLT DISCUSSION BY THE CREW, WE AGREED THAT PART OF THE CAUSE WAS THE SHORT TAXI DISTANCE FROM THE BUTLER RAMP TO RWY 33 IN WHICH WE WERE BUSY DOING CHKLISTS AND NOT PAYING PROPER ATTN TO TAXI. BUT WE ALSO FEEL THAT A POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS SITUATION EXISTS IN THAT AREA OF THE ARPT, BECAUSE THE BUTLER AVIATION RAMP BORDERS RWY 25-7 AND IS VERY NEAR RWY 33 APCH END. THE TAXI AND PARKING AREAS ARE CONFUSINGLY MARKED (ESPECIALLY TO UNFAMILIAR USERS), AND AS I HAVE PROVED BY MY OWN ERROR, A WRONG MOVE AT THIS END OF THE ARPT, WITH THE RAMP AND RWYS BLENDING TOGETHER, AND YOU COULD EASILY FIND YOURSELF SITTING DIRECTLY IN THE PATH OF AN APCHING OR DEPARTING ACFT. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR STATES RECENT MOVE OF BUTLER AVIATION TO OLD TERMINAL AREA HAS CREATED PROBS FOR THOSE UNFAMILIAR WITH AREA. NO SIGNS ARE USED TO DIRECT ACFT, JUST PAINTED LINES. HOLD LINE FOR RWY 33 IS VERY CLOSE TO BLDG--RAMP AREA. CREW SAW ANOTHER ACFT HOLDING CLOSER TO RWY 33 ON AN UPHILL TAXI RAMP. THOUGHT HOLD LINE MUST BE THERE. WERE JUST A FEW FT BEYOND HOLD LINE WHEN GND CALLED THEM. CREATED NO PROB FOR LNDG TFC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.