|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||0601 To 1200|
|Locale Reference||airport : lax|
|Altitude||msl bound lower : 9300|
msl bound upper : 10000
|Controlling Facilities||tracon : lax|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng|
|Navigation In Use||Other|
|Flight Phase||cruise other|
|Route In Use||enroute : on vectors|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : second officer|
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
pilot : flight engineer
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 60|
flight time total : 3800
flight time type : 1300
|Affiliation||government : faa|
|Function||controller : approach|
|Qualification||controller : radar|
|Anomaly||altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude|
non adherence : clearance
|Independent Detector||other controllera|
|Resolutory Action||controller : issued new clearance|
|Air Traffic Incident||Operational Deviation|
|ATC Facility||procedure or policy : unspecified|
On a handoff to lax approach control we were told to descend to 8000' and intercept fly in on the lax runway 25L localizer. The new approach controller changed our clearance to intercept the runway 24R localizer with a heading to intercept. In few mins later he called back to give us a lower altitude and also requested our present altitude, which the first officer read to him as 9300'. He replied that he had given us 10000' as an altitude. We told him the previous controller had cleared us to 8000' and we did not hear or read back the restriction of 10000'. He told us there was 'no problem,' and cleared us to lower. I understand the traffic problems and restrictions at lax are tough on controllers, but at lax, more so than any other high density TCA's I fly into, there is west/O a doubt more airspeed changes, altitude restrictions and more importantly, runway changes than any other area. I have seen, on another occasion, a total of 6 changes to our runway assignment at lax, which in IMC or marginal (smoggy) VMC days requires a change of approach plates, minimums bugs, frequencys, etc. This is what was going on at the time of this reported incident--we either did not hear/read back a new altitude restriction while 'switching our gears' to a new runway, or a handoff/communication problem existed. The constant airspeed and altitude changes are common among high density TCA's, but a runway change at the last minute diverts the attention of the cockpit, both from clrncs and also from clearing duties (watching for other traffic outside the cockpit) at lax. This happens much too often--on just 1 approach!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR WDB ALT DEVIATION OVERSHOT DURING DESCENT AND COMPLAINT ABOUT FREQUENT RWY CHANGES WHEN LNDG LAX.
Narrative: ON A HDOF TO LAX APCH CTL WE WERE TOLD TO DSND TO 8000' AND INTERCEPT FLY IN ON THE LAX RWY 25L LOC. THE NEW APCH CTLR CHANGED OUR CLRNC TO INTERCEPT THE RWY 24R LOC WITH A HDG TO INTERCEPT. IN FEW MINS LATER HE CALLED BACK TO GIVE US A LOWER ALT AND ALSO REQUESTED OUR PRESENT ALT, WHICH THE F/O READ TO HIM AS 9300'. HE REPLIED THAT HE HAD GIVEN US 10000' AS AN ALT. WE TOLD HIM THE PREVIOUS CTLR HAD CLRED US TO 8000' AND WE DID NOT HEAR OR READ BACK THE RESTRICTION OF 10000'. HE TOLD US THERE WAS 'NO PROB,' AND CLRED US TO LOWER. I UNDERSTAND THE TFC PROBS AND RESTRICTIONS AT LAX ARE TOUGH ON CTLRS, BUT AT LAX, MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER HIGH DENSITY TCA'S I FLY INTO, THERE IS W/O A DOUBT MORE AIRSPD CHANGES, ALT RESTRICTIONS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, RWY CHANGES THAN ANY OTHER AREA. I HAVE SEEN, ON ANOTHER OCCASION, A TOTAL OF 6 CHANGES TO OUR RWY ASSIGNMENT AT LAX, WHICH IN IMC OR MARGINAL (SMOGGY) VMC DAYS REQUIRES A CHANGE OF APCH PLATES, MINIMUMS BUGS, FREQS, ETC. THIS IS WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE TIME OF THIS RPTED INCIDENT--WE EITHER DID NOT HEAR/READ BACK A NEW ALT RESTRICTION WHILE 'SWITCHING OUR GEARS' TO A NEW RWY, OR A HDOF/COM PROB EXISTED. THE CONSTANT AIRSPD AND ALT CHANGES ARE COMMON AMONG HIGH DENSITY TCA'S, BUT A RWY CHANGE AT THE LAST MINUTE DIVERTS THE ATTN OF THE COCKPIT, BOTH FROM CLRNCS AND ALSO FROM CLEARING DUTIES (WATCHING FOR OTHER TFC OUTSIDE THE COCKPIT) AT LAX. THIS HAPPENS MUCH TOO OFTEN--ON JUST 1 APCH!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.