Track deviation account distance of VOR from fix cleared to hold.

Attributes
ACN	96774
Time
Date	198810
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : cyn
State Reference	NJ
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zny
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	cruise other other
Route In Use	enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 7200
ASRS Report	96774
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 200
ASRS Report	97131
Events
Anomaly	other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

On flight en route lga-pit we were given holding instructions for pit. While discussing fuel management with my first officer we entered boggin intersection area for a hold. Moments later we were asked about our position by center. Because of the distance from coyle (145 mi) needle we were completely centered but within reason (1 needle width) we were told of being off course by 10-14 mi to correct. Hearing this we attempted correction immediately. With center's help we were in a position very confusing to us. We didn't know what he wanted for re-entry to the holding pattern. After examining the situation and position we were in, we made a correction to keep us in the proper perspective of the holding pattern. Our actions confused center, but later were understood and re-entry was made. Supplemental information from acn 97131: ATC called and asked if we were in a turn. We replied 'roger.' they said 'we show you south of course,' and gave us a northwest vector. We held that vector until J110 intercept (west of bogge) and then made a left turn to return to bogge. As we began the turn ATC again asked if we were in a turn. We replied 'yes, a left turn to remain on the protected side.' we returned to bogge and established hold.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: TRACK DEVIATION ACCOUNT DISTANCE OF VOR FROM FIX CLEARED TO HOLD.

Narrative: ON FLT ENRTE LGA-PIT WE WERE GIVEN HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS FOR PIT. WHILE DISCUSSING FUEL MGMNT WITH MY FO WE ENTERED BOGGIN INTXN AREA FOR A HOLD. MOMENTS LATER WE WERE ASKED ABOUT OUR POS BY CTR. BECAUSE OF THE DISTANCE FROM COYLE (145 MI) NEEDLE WE WERE COMPLETELY CTRED BUT WITHIN REASON (1 NEEDLE WIDTH) WE WERE TOLD OF BEING OFF COURSE BY 10-14 MI TO CORRECT. HEARING THIS WE ATTEMPTED CORRECTION IMMEDIATELY. WITH CTR'S HELP WE WERE IN A POS VERY CONFUSING TO US. WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WANTED FOR RE-ENTRY TO THE HOLDING PATTERN. AFTER EXAMINING THE SIT AND POS WE WERE IN, WE MADE A CORRECTION TO KEEP US IN THE PROPER PERSPECTIVE OF THE HOLDING PATTERN. OUR ACTIONS CONFUSED CTR, BUT LATER WERE UNDERSTOOD AND RE-ENTRY WAS MADE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 97131: ATC CALLED AND ASKED IF WE WERE IN A TURN. WE REPLIED 'ROGER.' THEY SAID 'WE SHOW YOU S OF COURSE,' AND GAVE US A NW VECTOR. WE HELD THAT VECTOR UNTIL J110 INTERCEPT (W OF BOGGE) AND THEN MADE A LEFT TURN TO RETURN TO BOGGE. AS WE BEGAN THE TURN ATC AGAIN ASKED IF WE WERE IN A TURN. WE REPLIED 'YES, A LEFT TURN TO REMAIN ON THE PROTECTED SIDE.' WE RETURNED TO BOGGE AND ESTABLISHED HOLD.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.