|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1201 To 1800|
|Locale Reference||airport : dfw|
|Altitude||msl bound lower : 3000|
msl bound upper : 4000
|Controlling Facilities||tracon : dfw|
artcc : zlc
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng|
|Flight Phase||climbout : intermediate altitude|
|Route In Use||enroute : on vectors|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 250|
flight time total : 3000
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : instrument|
pilot : commercial
|Anomaly||inflight encounter : weather|
other anomaly other
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Resolutory Action||controller : issued new clearance|
|Primary Problem||ATC Human Performance|
|Air Traffic Incident||other|
On flight dfw to ile an incident occurred that I feel should be brought to your attention. We departed dfw at XA30 local. Our clearance read as filed, 240 degree heading, maintain 2000'. We were handed off to departure who told us to climb and maintain 4000'. I noticed 2 thunderstorm cells on the radar, one at 12-1 O'clock and a large cell at 12 O'clock. We asked departure for deviations around the cells to the south. He told us 'unable.' we informed him that there was WX at 12 O'clock and we needed a turn to avoid it. He told us that there was a bunch of aircraft to our left and he was unable to at this time. We managed to get around the smaller cell with minor heading changes and the cell passed off our right. At this point we had the radar on the 10 mi scale. At about 5 mi, the large cell was painting solid red 30 degrees on either side of the centerline of the scope. When we were 4 mi from the storm, I asked the controller if he would have a turn for us within the next 2 mi. He said he would not and to maintain our present heading. Both the first officer and I could see a large build up and a solid rainshaft coming from the cloud. I tilted the radar antenna up another 2-3 degrees to make sure we were not painting the ground. The intensity of the cell showed very little change--solid red with a very steep contour. The controller asked the flight ahead of us how the ride was. He responded with 'a smooth ride,' however I could see the aircraft and he had passed on the extreme southern-most edge. Our heading was taking us into the center of the storm. At 3 mi from the storm, I told departure that we needed a 30 degree right turn to avoid the storm. The controller seemed upset with us, but granted us the turn. The controller also said that a company flight had just penetrated the WX with no problem. I told him that we were painting at least a level 3 cell and I did not intend to penetrate it. He then told us to descend to 3000' & that we had jet traffic behind us, overtaking. While we were in our descent, he told us the meacham was at our 11 O'clock and we were cleared through the air traffic area at 3000'. He also said something about vectoring us back to dfw. We told him that we wanted to head toward waco, not dfw. He then turned us to a heading of 350 degrees to avoid the carswell traffic pattern. We flew the heading for a few miles--then he turned us to a 090 degree heading, then finally a 150 degree heading. We maintained 3000' till just before we were handed off to waco approach. After we were handed off, I called him back & told him we were sorry if we caused him any problems, but he had us heading into a situation we could not accept. He still seemed hostile when he replied that he had a bunch of airplanes in the area and that there had not ever been a cloud as solid as an airplane. At that point I bid him good day and left the frequency. I got the impression that the controller felt that we were there because he was & not the other way around. I can accept the fact that he was busy with traffic & WX rertes, but my responsibility is for the safety of my passenger & aircraft. I feel that I did what was necessary to ensure that.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMT HESITANT TO ACCEPT ATC HEADINGS DUE TO WX PAINTED ON HIS AIRBORNE RADAR. THINKS TRACON CTLR BEHAVIOR WAS AGGRESSIVE.
Narrative: ON FLT DFW TO ILE AN INCIDENT OCCURRED THAT I FEEL SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTN. WE DEPARTED DFW AT XA30 LCL. OUR CLRNC READ AS FILED, 240 DEG HDG, MAINTAIN 2000'. WE WERE HANDED OFF TO DEP WHO TOLD US TO CLB AND MAINTAIN 4000'. I NOTICED 2 TSTM CELLS ON THE RADAR, ONE AT 12-1 O'CLOCK AND A LARGE CELL AT 12 O'CLOCK. WE ASKED DEP FOR DEVIATIONS AROUND THE CELLS TO THE S. HE TOLD US 'UNABLE.' WE INFORMED HIM THAT THERE WAS WX AT 12 O'CLOCK AND WE NEEDED A TURN TO AVOID IT. HE TOLD US THAT THERE WAS A BUNCH OF ACFT TO OUR LEFT AND HE WAS UNABLE TO AT THIS TIME. WE MANAGED TO GET AROUND THE SMALLER CELL WITH MINOR HDG CHANGES AND THE CELL PASSED OFF OUR RIGHT. AT THIS POINT WE HAD THE RADAR ON THE 10 MI SCALE. AT ABOUT 5 MI, THE LARGE CELL WAS PAINTING SOLID RED 30 DEGS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE SCOPE. WHEN WE WERE 4 MI FROM THE STORM, I ASKED THE CTLR IF HE WOULD HAVE A TURN FOR US WITHIN THE NEXT 2 MI. HE SAID HE WOULD NOT AND TO MAINTAIN OUR PRESENT HDG. BOTH THE F/O AND I COULD SEE A LARGE BUILD UP AND A SOLID RAINSHAFT COMING FROM THE CLOUD. I TILTED THE RADAR ANTENNA UP ANOTHER 2-3 DEGS TO MAKE SURE WE WERE NOT PAINTING THE GND. THE INTENSITY OF THE CELL SHOWED VERY LITTLE CHANGE--SOLID RED WITH A VERY STEEP CONTOUR. THE CTLR ASKED THE FLT AHEAD OF US HOW THE RIDE WAS. HE RESPONDED WITH 'A SMOOTH RIDE,' HOWEVER I COULD SEE THE ACFT AND HE HAD PASSED ON THE EXTREME SOUTHERN-MOST EDGE. OUR HDG WAS TAKING US INTO THE CENTER OF THE STORM. AT 3 MI FROM THE STORM, I TOLD DEP THAT WE NEEDED A 30 DEG RIGHT TURN TO AVOID THE STORM. THE CTLR SEEMED UPSET WITH US, BUT GRANTED US THE TURN. THE CTLR ALSO SAID THAT A COMPANY FLT HAD JUST PENETRATED THE WX WITH NO PROB. I TOLD HIM THAT WE WERE PAINTING AT LEAST A LEVEL 3 CELL AND I DID NOT INTEND TO PENETRATE IT. HE THEN TOLD US TO DSND TO 3000' & THAT WE HAD JET TFC BEHIND US, OVERTAKING. WHILE WE WERE IN OUR DSCNT, HE TOLD US THE MEACHAM WAS AT OUR 11 O'CLOCK AND WE WERE CLRED THROUGH THE ATA AT 3000'. HE ALSO SAID SOMETHING ABOUT VECTORING US BACK TO DFW. WE TOLD HIM THAT WE WANTED TO HEAD TOWARD WACO, NOT DFW. HE THEN TURNED US TO A HDG OF 350 DEGS TO AVOID THE CARSWELL TFC PATTERN. WE FLEW THE HDG FOR A FEW MILES--THEN HE TURNED US TO A 090 DEG HDG, THEN FINALLY A 150 DEG HDG. WE MAINTAINED 3000' TILL JUST BEFORE WE WERE HANDED OFF TO WACO APCH. AFTER WE WERE HANDED OFF, I CALLED HIM BACK & TOLD HIM WE WERE SORRY IF WE CAUSED HIM ANY PROBS, BUT HE HAD US HDG INTO A SITUATION WE COULD NOT ACCEPT. HE STILL SEEMED HOSTILE WHEN HE REPLIED THAT HE HAD A BUNCH OF AIRPLANES IN THE AREA AND THAT THERE HAD NOT EVER BEEN A CLOUD AS SOLID AS AN AIRPLANE. AT THAT POINT I BID HIM GOOD DAY AND LEFT THE FREQ. I GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT THE CTLR FELT THAT WE WERE THERE BECAUSE HE WAS & NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I CAN ACCEPT THE FACT THAT HE WAS BUSY WITH TFC & WX RERTES, BUT MY RESPONSIBILITY IS FOR THE SAFETY OF MY PAX & ACFT. I FEEL THAT I DID WHAT WAS NECESSARY TO ENSURE THAT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.