Air carrier medium large transport altitude deviation undershot altitude crossing restriction on STA...

Attributes
ACN	87113
Time
Date	198805
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : bld airport : lax
State Reference	NV
Altitude	msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 16500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zla
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	cruise other descent other
Route In Use	arrival star : star
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 175 flight time total : 13100 flight time type : 2675
ASRS Report	87113
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time total : 8200 flight time type : 1200
ASRS Report	87429
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

Captain on radio, first officer flying. FL270 cleared to cross fuzzy intersection at 15000'. Captain read back fuzzy at 15000'. First officer set and armed 15000, but 'heard' ashby at 15000'... With further reinforcement from STAR chart ('expect to cross at 15000') and descent data from pms. First officer planned and executed a descent to cross ashby at 15000'. Captain left frequency to get ATIS and call company inbound. Returning to frequency, ATC (different controller) said that they showed us past fuzzy...did we concur? Captain concurred and realized we had been high at suggestions: can leave frequency but don't leave airplane...must still monitor progress. Hear what is said. Don't assume anything or 'hear what you want to hear'. Don't believe that it can never happen to you. Also suggest that if on a 'fuzzy-2' arrival, the primary planned descent point should be 'fuzzy' not 'ashby' or anything else. We should not have been high at fuzzy...but we were. Supplemental information from acn #87429: we reviewed the las fuzzy. Two arrival before departing sfo and I programmed the performance management system to cross ashby intersection at 15000' as shown on the arrival chart.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR MLG ALT DEVIATION UNDERSHOT ALT CROSSING RESTRICTION ON STAR INTO LAS.

Narrative: CAPT ON RADIO, F/O FLYING. FL270 CLRED TO CROSS FUZZY INTERSECTION AT 15000'. CAPT READ BACK FUZZY AT 15000'. F/O SET AND ARMED 15000, BUT 'HEARD' ASHBY AT 15000'... WITH FURTHER REINFORCEMENT FROM STAR CHART ('EXPECT TO CROSS AT 15000') AND DESCENT DATA FROM PMS. F/O PLANNED AND EXECUTED A DESCENT TO CROSS ASHBY AT 15000'. CAPT LEFT FREQ TO GET ATIS AND CALL COMPANY INBOUND. RETURNING TO FREQ, ATC (DIFFERENT CTLR) SAID THAT THEY SHOWED US PAST FUZZY...DID WE CONCUR? CAPT CONCURRED AND REALIZED WE HAD BEEN HIGH AT SUGGESTIONS: CAN LEAVE FREQ BUT DON'T LEAVE AIRPLANE...MUST STILL MONITOR PROGRESS. HEAR WHAT IS SAID. DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING OR 'HEAR WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR'. DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN TO YOU. ALSO SUGGEST THAT IF ON A 'FUZZY-2' ARRIVAL, THE PRIMARY PLANNED DESCENT POINT SHOULD BE 'FUZZY' NOT 'ASHBY' OR ANYTHING ELSE. WE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HIGH AT FUZZY...BUT WE WERE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION FROM ACN #87429: WE REVIEWED THE LAS FUZZY. TWO ARRIVAL BEFORE DEPARTING SFO AND I PROGRAMMED THE PERFORMANCE MGMNT SYSTEM TO CROSS ASHBY INTERSECTION AT 15000' AS SHOWN ON THE ARRIVAL CHART.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Air carrier medium large transport altitude deviation undershot altitude crossing restriction on STAR into las.