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Less than standard separation. Medium large transport overtaking light transport cleared to same altitude.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 85512 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198804 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : iad |
| State Reference | VA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 7500 msl bound upper : 7800 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : iad |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 5000 |
| ASRS Report | 85512 |
| Person 2 | |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : far non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 800 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Flight phl-iad. After passing robert intersection inbound iad level 7000', having just come out from under an overcast into clear skies. Iad approach reported traffic 12 O'clock, 1 mi same direction descending out of 7500'. We reported traffic in sight at that time. Traffic was an medium large transport inbound to iad also IFR. We questioned approach as to whether medium large transport had us in sight and had been maintaining visibility. No response. We inquired again and this time were informed that they had passed overhead at 7800' by approach. It appeared to us that approach had cleared traffic through our altitude, forgetting we were there! As per phone conversation with approach we were informed they were training controllers.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION. MLG OVERTAKING LTT CLEARED TO SAME ALT.
Narrative: FLT PHL-IAD. AFTER PASSING ROBERT INTXN INBND IAD LEVEL 7000', HAVING JUST COME OUT FROM UNDER AN OVCST INTO CLR SKIES. IAD APCH RPTED TFC 12 O'CLOCK, 1 MI SAME DIRECTION DSNDING OUT OF 7500'. WE RPTED TFC IN SIGHT AT THAT TIME. TFC WAS AN MLG INBND TO IAD ALSO IFR. WE QUESTIONED APCH AS TO WHETHER MLG HAD US IN SIGHT AND HAD BEEN MAINTAINING VIS. NO RESPONSE. WE INQUIRED AGAIN AND THIS TIME WERE INFORMED THAT THEY HAD PASSED OVERHEAD AT 7800' BY APCH. IT APPEARED TO US THAT APCH HAD CLRED TFC THROUGH OUR ALT, FORGETTING WE WERE THERE! AS PER PHONE CONVERSATION WITH APCH WE WERE INFORMED THEY WERE TRAINING CTLRS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.