Narrative:

Reference fom and the deice/anti-ice procedures card. I think there might be systemic operational confusion over the usage of the deice/anti-ice checklist; specifically; when you need to deice. This concerns when type iv has been applied to a terminating aircraft. I examined the deice/anti-ice checklist while in cruise one night and brought myself to a somewhat confusing conclusion. Scenario: I'm in ZZZ on an am. I show and the aircraft has had type iv applied to it over night. The weather is clear; no frost; no fog; no falling precipitation; and it's 20 F. What do I need to do? I concluded that I needed to deice but it was difficult to reach that conclusion and furthermore; I could never get crew consensus. Back to my flight at cruise. I gave my first officer the scenario and asked him; 'what do we need to do?' he pulls out the deice/anti-ice card. He reads through the top part that talks about deicing the aircraft; gets to stop; and says; 'that's it!' cycle the control column; stab trim; etc. I said well read further. He appeased me. I said; 'why would we have a provision for deicing a clean airplane (the left column of part 1 of the deicing card) if there is no contamination and there would be no falling precipitation prior to departure?' now he was confused as well. I consulted the fom. The fom states; 'caution: the wing surfaces of a terminating aircraft that has been anti-iced with type iv fluid should have an emerald green appearance. The anti-ice fluid must be removed prior to departure with type I fluid or water; as conditions require.' I see no reason for the remark; 'as conditions require' and seems to be leading many to believe 'as conditions require' is in some way providing relief. This first officer and I agreed to disagree. I asked my next first officer. He said the same thing only with more conviction. He said once you reach the 'stop sign;' you're done. And; reading further is why I'm confusing myself. I showed him the fom. He said the fom is referring to contamination on the aircraft and not type iv ('as conditions require'). I asked another first officer. Same answer. I asked a check airman. After being told I need a lesson in checklist usage; (the stop sign) he said I was reading too much into it as well. I cited the statement in the fom and he also said the caution was referring to contamination. It was then that I realized that the deice/anti-ice card section that was telling pilots to stop was referring to de-icing (which you have not received and don't think you require because there is no visible contamination; other than type iv). I pointed out to him that type iv is not a deicing agent; that it is an anti-ice agent. You would need to go beyond that point (as directed by the fom) because the two first parts of the checklist are not necessarily 'read and do.' they are questions you should be asking yourself. 'Do I need to deice?' do I need to 'deice and anti-ice?' I told him that the bottom line is that I think you need to get that type iv off that airplane and in the back of my mind I thought I had remembered a statement from an instructor that type iv breaks down over time and needs to be taken off the airplane in this circumstance. He disagreed but said he would get an answer. He called back about an hour later and said; 'you have to deice.' well; he actually said; 'your first officer is right; you have to de-ice;' which frosted my tail because I had spent fifteen minutes on the phone with him trying to convince him that we needed to deice and I was certain he knew my stance which was as the only one (out of five) that thought we needed to deice. I contacted all the first officers I'd spoken to about this and said that I had gotten guidance from headquarters and that we did in fact have to deice. Every one of them encouraged me to take it a step further as they felt that it is in no way shape or form clear. I called our union safety chairman and gave him the ZZZ scenario. He said with conviction th

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: An air carrier pilot clarifies the confusion about the necessity for applying Type I de-ice fluid to wing surfaces treated with Type IV anti-ice fluid which has dehydrated because of its application hours before. Reporter stated t hat Type IV fluid viscosity increase can modify airfoil characteristics.

Narrative: Reference FOM and the Deice/Anti-ice Procedures Card. I think there might be systemic operational confusion over the usage of the Deice/Anti-ice checklist; specifically; when you need to deice. This concerns when Type IV has been applied to a terminating aircraft. I examined the Deice/Anti-ice checklist while in cruise one night and brought myself to a somewhat confusing conclusion. Scenario: I'm in ZZZ on an AM. I show and the aircraft has had Type IV applied to it over night. The weather is clear; no frost; no fog; no falling precipitation; and it's 20 F. What do I need to do? I concluded that I needed to deice but it was difficult to reach that conclusion and furthermore; I could never get crew consensus. Back to my flight at cruise. I gave my First Officer the scenario and asked him; 'What do we need to do?' He pulls out the Deice/Anti-ice card. He reads through the top part that talks about deicing the aircraft; gets to STOP; and says; 'That's it!' Cycle the control column; stab trim; etc. I said well read further. He appeased me. I said; 'Why would we have a provision for deicing a clean airplane (the left column of Part 1 of the deicing card) if there is no contamination and there would be no falling precipitation prior to departure?' Now he was confused as well. I consulted the FOM. The FOM states; 'Caution: The wing surfaces of a terminating aircraft that has been anti-iced with Type IV fluid should have an emerald green appearance. The anti-ice fluid must be removed prior to departure with Type I fluid or water; as conditions require.' I see no reason for the remark; 'as conditions require' and seems to be leading many to believe 'as conditions require' is in some way providing relief. This First Officer and I agreed to disagree. I asked my next First Officer. He said the same thing only with more conviction. He said once you reach the 'STOP SIGN;' you're done. And; reading further is why I'm confusing myself. I showed him the FOM. He said the FOM is referring to contamination on the aircraft and not Type IV ('as conditions require'). I asked another First Officer. Same answer. I asked a Check Airman. After being told I need a lesson in checklist usage; (the STOP Sign) he said I was reading too much into it as well. I cited the statement in the FOM and he also said the Caution was referring to contamination. It was then that I realized that the Deice/Anti-ice card section that was telling Pilots to STOP was referring to DE-ICING (which you have not received and don't THINK you require because there is no visible contamination; other than Type IV). I pointed out to him that Type IV is not a deicing agent; that it is an anti-ice agent. You WOULD need to go beyond that point (as directed by the FOM) because the two first parts of the checklist are not necessarily 'read and do.' They are questions you should be asking yourself. 'Do I need to deice?' Do I need to 'deice and anti-ice?' I told him that the bottom line is that I think you need to get that Type IV off that airplane and in the back of my mind I thought I had remembered a statement from an instructor that Type IV breaks down over time and needs to be taken off the airplane in this circumstance. He disagreed but said he would get an answer. He called back about an hour later and said; 'You have to deice.' Well; he actually said; 'Your First Officer is right; you have to de-ice;' which frosted my tail because I had spent fifteen minutes on the phone with him trying to convince him that we needed to deice and I was certain he knew MY STANCE which was as the only one (out of five) that thought we needed to deice. I contacted all the First Officers I'd spoken to about this and said that I had gotten guidance from Headquarters and that we did in fact have to deice. Every one of them encouraged me to take it a step further as they felt that it is in no way shape or form clear. I called our Union Safety Chairman and gave him the ZZZ scenario. He said with conviction th

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.