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Photo aircraft maneuvering below the arrival corridor; arriving CL65 TCAS issued a 'descend' command for traffic 500 ft below. ATC instructed the flight crew not to descend and they complied.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 779754 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200803 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : cvg.airport |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | msl single value : 4200 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cvg.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Regional Jet CL65 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cvg.tracon |
| Operator | general aviation : personal |
| Make Model Name | Cessna Aircraft Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Flight Plan | VFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| ASRS Report | 779754 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : approach |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 15000 vertical : 500 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Airspace Structure |
Narrative:
On vectors to runway 18R at cvg; ATC advised 2 cessnas were maneuvering 500 ft below. We received traffic alert followed by an RA commanding descent. (The cessnas were maneuvering on final approach path.) when we advised ATC commanding descent he said 'don't descend!' we then received second RA from other cessna -- also commanding descent. We again advised ATC. Class B airport arrival path is not a suitable area for aircraft to maneuver with -- so little separation. Either they should have been at an altitude providing greater safety margin or not an arrival path. We never received visual on second aircraft. The altitude we were assigned also placed us way above the GS which required greater than normal (initially) maneuvering to get stabilized to comply with stabilized approach criteria. This shouldn't happen to passenger jet on final approach just to allow GA aircraft to take pictures. Why did the TCAS RA's command dscnts when it was recording the cessna's altitude 500 ft below? Had we complied; we would've collided.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PHOTO ACFT MANEUVERING BELOW THE ARRIVAL CORRIDOR; ARRIVING CL65 TCAS ISSUED A 'DESCEND' COMMAND FOR TFC 500 FT BELOW. ATC INSTRUCTED THE FLT CREW NOT TO DESCEND AND THEY COMPLIED.
Narrative: ON VECTORS TO RWY 18R AT CVG; ATC ADVISED 2 CESSNAS WERE MANEUVERING 500 FT BELOW. WE RECEIVED TFC ALERT FOLLOWED BY AN RA COMMANDING DSCNT. (THE CESSNAS WERE MANEUVERING ON FINAL APCH PATH.) WHEN WE ADVISED ATC COMMANDING DSCNT HE SAID 'DON'T DSND!' WE THEN RECEIVED SECOND RA FROM OTHER CESSNA -- ALSO COMMANDING DSCNT. WE AGAIN ADVISED ATC. CLASS B ARPT ARR PATH IS NOT A SUITABLE AREA FOR ACFT TO MANEUVER WITH -- SO LITTLE SEPARATION. EITHER THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT AN ALT PROVIDING GREATER SAFETY MARGIN OR NOT AN ARR PATH. WE NEVER RECEIVED VISUAL ON SECOND ACFT. THE ALT WE WERE ASSIGNED ALSO PLACED US WAY ABOVE THE GS WHICH REQUIRED GREATER THAN NORMAL (INITIALLY) MANEUVERING TO GET STABILIZED TO COMPLY WITH STABILIZED APCH CRITERIA. THIS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN TO PAX JET ON FINAL APCH JUST TO ALLOW GA ACFT TO TAKE PICTURES. WHY DID THE TCAS RA'S COMMAND DSCNTS WHEN IT WAS RECORDING THE CESSNA'S ALT 500 FT BELOW? HAD WE COMPLIED; WE WOULD'VE COLLIDED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.