|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||0601 To 1200|
|Locale Reference||airport : ord.airport|
|Altitude||agl single value : 0|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 121|
|Flight Phase||ground : parked|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Anomaly||ground encounters other|
non adherence : company policies
non adherence : far
non adherence : published procedure
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
Flight Crew Human Performance
I discovered ice on the leading edge of the wings during the walkaround. I could not confirm that the top of the wings were free from contamination from my view on the ground or from the cabin. I called for de-ice; on the phone; requesting type I on the wing and tail. 2 deicer crew members came up to the cockpit and told me that the plane was clean and did not require deicing. I politely told them it was on the leading edges; apparently picked up during the plane's arrival; and that I wanted type I on the wing and tail and that the aircraft was prepared for de-ice. The gate agent then closed the door and while we were waiting for de-ice; a chief pilot got on the headset from the ramp and told me that these are some of the best deicers at this station and that they said the top of the wings were clean and that I only needed to de-ice the leading edges. He did not know that the deicers had apparently already missed the ice that I found so I insisted that the entire wing and tail be de-iced. Ultimately; they did de-ice all the wing and tail; but the chief pilot tried several times to talk me into only deicing the leading edges for economic reasons. While I appreciate the importance of economics at the airline; I think it was completely inappropriate to include it in this safety related discussion. I required the amount of deicing that I believed to be the safest and most conservative course of action for my passenger and crew. I recommend that any future supervisory or management involvement in this type of situation be directed to maximizing the safety of the operation and insuring that de-ice crews are properly trained; (so they don't miss obvious ice build-up); and not toward saving money.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 CAPTAIN GETS UNSOLICITED ADVICE FROM BOTH THE DE-ICE CREW AND A COMPANY CHIEF PLT WHEN HE REQUESTS DEICING FOR ICE ON LEADING EDGES.
Narrative: I DISCOVERED ICE ON THE LEADING EDGE OF THE WINGS DURING THE WALKAROUND. I COULD NOT CONFIRM THAT THE TOP OF THE WINGS WERE FREE FROM CONTAMINATION FROM MY VIEW ON THE GND OR FROM THE CABIN. I CALLED FOR DE-ICE; ON THE PHONE; REQUESTING TYPE I ON THE WING AND TAIL. 2 DEICER CREW MEMBERS CAME UP TO THE COCKPIT AND TOLD ME THAT THE PLANE WAS CLEAN AND DID NOT REQUIRE DEICING. I POLITELY TOLD THEM IT WAS ON THE LEADING EDGES; APPARENTLY PICKED UP DURING THE PLANE'S ARR; AND THAT I WANTED TYPE I ON THE WING AND TAIL AND THAT THE ACFT WAS PREPARED FOR DE-ICE. THE GATE AGENT THEN CLOSED THE DOOR AND WHILE WE WERE WAITING FOR DE-ICE; A CHIEF PLT GOT ON THE HEADSET FROM THE RAMP AND TOLD ME THAT THESE ARE SOME OF THE BEST DEICERS AT THIS STATION AND THAT THEY SAID THE TOP OF THE WINGS WERE CLEAN AND THAT I ONLY NEEDED TO DE-ICE THE LEADING EDGES. HE DID NOT KNOW THAT THE DEICERS HAD APPARENTLY ALREADY MISSED THE ICE THAT I FOUND SO I INSISTED THAT THE ENTIRE WING AND TAIL BE DE-ICED. ULTIMATELY; THEY DID DE-ICE ALL THE WING AND TAIL; BUT THE CHIEF PLT TRIED SEVERAL TIMES TO TALK ME INTO ONLY DEICING THE LEADING EDGES FOR ECONOMIC REASONS. WHILE I APPRECIATE THE IMPORTANCE OF ECONOMICS AT THE AIRLINE; I THINK IT WAS COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE TO INCLUDE IT IN THIS SAFETY RELATED DISCUSSION. I REQUIRED THE AMOUNT OF DEICING THAT I BELIEVED TO BE THE SAFEST AND MOST CONSERVATIVE COURSE OF ACTION FOR MY PAX AND CREW. I RECOMMEND THAT ANY FUTURE SUPERVISORY OR MGMNT INVOLVEMENT IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION BE DIRECTED TO MAXIMIZING THE SAFETY OF THE OP AND INSURING THAT DE-ICE CREWS ARE PROPERLY TRAINED; (SO THEY DON'T MISS OBVIOUS ICE BUILD-UP); AND NOT TOWARD SAVING MONEY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.