|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Locale Reference||airport : tol.airport|
|Altitude||agl single value : 0|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Commercial Fixed Wing|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 121|
|Flight Phase||landing : roll|
|Controlling Facilities||tower : tol.tower|
|Operator||common carrier : air taxi|
|Make Model Name||Helicopter|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 135|
|Flight Phase||climbout : takeoff|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Anomaly||conflict : ground critical|
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Resolutory Action||flight crew : took evasive action|
|Problem Areas||ATC Human Performance|
|Primary Problem||ATC Human Performance|
Our approach and landing in toledo was normal; standard and uneventful. However; during the landing rollout; both the first officer and I noticed a helicopter hover-taxiing over the taxiway B about 1/2 way between taxiway B9 and taxiway B11. At the time we observed the helicopter; his heading was roughly 252 degrees (parallel to the runway) and hovering around 20-30 ft above the taxiway with his back towards us. We began to decelerate as we rolled down the runway; but as we approached taxiway B9; I felt that we were still too fast to make the turn. So; I continued rolling out down the runway braking the aircraft to make a right turn at the taxiway B11 turnoff. As we passed the taxiway B9; quickly becoming abeam of the hovering helicopter; toledo tower instructed the helicopter to 'turn to heading 225 degrees...yeah heading 225 degrees cleared for takeoff.' when my first officer and I heard this; we both stated 'what?' out loud in surprise. I could see exactly what was going to happen. The reason being; the landing rollout heading for runway 25 in toledo is roughly 252 degrees. With tower instructing the helicopter to turn to a heading of 225 degrees; cleared for takeoff; this new heading was going to intersect our landing rollout. Furthermore; I assumed that the helicopter had no idea where we were on the runway; because his back was to us trusting that toledo tower was going to provide aircraft separation. Let me remind you; all of this happened in a matter of a few seconds. When we heard the clearance for the helicopter to depart; I started braking much harder to slow and stop the aircraft as quick and safely as possible. We were already abeam the helicopter and if he should quickly turn to his left; we would be extremely close. At this same moment toledo tower quickly stated; 'air carrier; stop; stop on the runway!' as I was already braking hard; we stopped rather quickly and watched the helicopter depart. I could tell that the pilot of the helicopter knew something wasn't right; because he quickly looked to his left and rolled out of his turn. My braking and the helicopter pilot's decreased rate of turn provided much greater separation than what could have been a few yards. I would estimate that helicopter crossed the runway roughly 35-40 yards directly in front of us; in the area of taxiway B11 where I planned our turnoff and at an altitude that may not have cleared our aircraft. As all of this happened; I stated to my first officer that 'this isn't right.' he and I were shocked that this just happened. Once the helicopter was clear of the runway area; toledo tower instructed us to continue; turn right and taxi to the terminal. As we cleared the runway; my first officer asked the tower if what just happened was 'kosher.' toledo tower's response was 'as far as I am concerned that was a different surface.' neither one of us understood what that meant; however; I didn't want to get into a discussion over the radio. We still had a job to do prior to arriving at the gate. My first officer and I dropped the discussion at this point and continued on to the gate uneventfully. I have been flying into toledo for over 6 yrs now. Over that time frame; I have had and observed many helicopters land and depart around our arrs and departures. They are always very professional and do a great job. I believe that the pilot of this helicopter also did a good job. On the other hand; toledo tower surprised me. In the past; they have been extremely professional and 'followed the book.' in fact; on many occasions I have had a helicopter depart as we were arriving. However; tower always departed them over the taxiway B parallel to runway 25 and instructed them to turn to whatever heading they were going to at the end of the runway. This procedure has always provided a substantial amount of separation. As I heard this helicopter initially call the tower; while in the hover taxi over taxiway B; I expected to hear the tower instruct them to depart parallel to the runway and then turn at the end. When toledo tower told the helicopter to turn early; this added to my surprise! I feel that this event occurred due to the fact that toledo tower did not provide proper aircraft separation. The fact that we were the landing aircraft adds to my frustration. There wasn't much more for my first officer and I to do; other than stop the aircraft as quickly as possible. The tower mayhave felt that we were going to turn right on taxiway B9; however; that would have taken excessive braking in my opinion and would not have been prudent. Safety should always come first; especially when there are passenger involved!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR LNDG ON RWY 25 AT TOL EXPERIENCED CONFLICT DURING LNDG ROLL WHEN TWR CLRED HELI TO DEP FROM TXWY; ANTICIPATING LNDG TFC RWY TURN OFF.
Narrative: OUR APCH AND LNDG IN TOLEDO WAS NORMAL; STANDARD AND UNEVENTFUL. HOWEVER; DURING THE LNDG ROLLOUT; BOTH THE FO AND I NOTICED A HELI HOVER-TAXIING OVER THE TXWY B ABOUT 1/2 WAY BTWN TXWY B9 AND TXWY B11. AT THE TIME WE OBSERVED THE HELI; HIS HDG WAS ROUGHLY 252 DEGS (PARALLEL TO THE RWY) AND HOVERING AROUND 20-30 FT ABOVE THE TXWY WITH HIS BACK TOWARDS US. WE BEGAN TO DECELERATE AS WE ROLLED DOWN THE RWY; BUT AS WE APCHED TXWY B9; I FELT THAT WE WERE STILL TOO FAST TO MAKE THE TURN. SO; I CONTINUED ROLLING OUT DOWN THE RWY BRAKING THE ACFT TO MAKE A R TURN AT THE TXWY B11 TURNOFF. AS WE PASSED THE TXWY B9; QUICKLY BECOMING ABEAM OF THE HOVERING HELI; TOLEDO TWR INSTRUCTED THE HELI TO 'TURN TO HDG 225 DEGS...YEAH HDG 225 DEGS CLRED FOR TKOF.' WHEN MY FO AND I HEARD THIS; WE BOTH STATED 'WHAT?' OUT LOUD IN SURPRISE. I COULD SEE EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. THE REASON BEING; THE LNDG ROLLOUT HDG FOR RWY 25 IN TOLEDO IS ROUGHLY 252 DEGS. WITH TWR INSTRUCTING THE HELI TO TURN TO A HDG OF 225 DEGS; CLRED FOR TKOF; THIS NEW HDG WAS GOING TO INTERSECT OUR LNDG ROLLOUT. FURTHERMORE; I ASSUMED THAT THE HELI HAD NO IDEA WHERE WE WERE ON THE RWY; BECAUSE HIS BACK WAS TO US TRUSTING THAT TOLEDO TWR WAS GOING TO PROVIDE ACFT SEPARATION. LET ME REMIND YOU; ALL OF THIS HAPPENED IN A MATTER OF A FEW SECONDS. WHEN WE HEARD THE CLRNC FOR THE HELI TO DEPART; I STARTED BRAKING MUCH HARDER TO SLOW AND STOP THE ACFT AS QUICK AND SAFELY AS POSSIBLE. WE WERE ALREADY ABEAM THE HELI AND IF HE SHOULD QUICKLY TURN TO HIS L; WE WOULD BE EXTREMELY CLOSE. AT THIS SAME MOMENT TOLEDO TWR QUICKLY STATED; 'ACR; STOP; STOP ON THE RWY!' AS I WAS ALREADY BRAKING HARD; WE STOPPED RATHER QUICKLY AND WATCHED THE HELI DEPART. I COULD TELL THAT THE PLT OF THE HELI KNEW SOMETHING WASN'T RIGHT; BECAUSE HE QUICKLY LOOKED TO HIS L AND ROLLED OUT OF HIS TURN. MY BRAKING AND THE HELI PLT'S DECREASED RATE OF TURN PROVIDED MUCH GREATER SEPARATION THAN WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A FEW YARDS. I WOULD ESTIMATE THAT HELI CROSSED THE RWY ROUGHLY 35-40 YARDS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF US; IN THE AREA OF TXWY B11 WHERE I PLANNED OUR TURNOFF AND AT AN ALT THAT MAY NOT HAVE CLRED OUR ACFT. AS ALL OF THIS HAPPENED; I STATED TO MY FO THAT 'THIS ISN'T RIGHT.' HE AND I WERE SHOCKED THAT THIS JUST HAPPENED. ONCE THE HELI WAS CLR OF THE RWY AREA; TOLEDO TWR INSTRUCTED US TO CONTINUE; TURN R AND TAXI TO THE TERMINAL. AS WE CLRED THE RWY; MY FO ASKED THE TWR IF WHAT JUST HAPPENED WAS 'KOSHER.' TOLEDO TWR'S RESPONSE WAS 'AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED THAT WAS A DIFFERENT SURFACE.' NEITHER ONE OF US UNDERSTOOD WHAT THAT MEANT; HOWEVER; I DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO A DISCUSSION OVER THE RADIO. WE STILL HAD A JOB TO DO PRIOR TO ARRIVING AT THE GATE. MY FO AND I DROPPED THE DISCUSSION AT THIS POINT AND CONTINUED ON TO THE GATE UNEVENTFULLY. I HAVE BEEN FLYING INTO TOLEDO FOR OVER 6 YRS NOW. OVER THAT TIME FRAME; I HAVE HAD AND OBSERVED MANY HELIS LAND AND DEPART AROUND OUR ARRS AND DEPS. THEY ARE ALWAYS VERY PROFESSIONAL AND DO A GREAT JOB. I BELIEVE THAT THE PLT OF THIS HELI ALSO DID A GOOD JOB. ON THE OTHER HAND; TOLEDO TWR SURPRISED ME. IN THE PAST; THEY HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY PROFESSIONAL AND 'FOLLOWED THE BOOK.' IN FACT; ON MANY OCCASIONS I HAVE HAD A HELI DEPART AS WE WERE ARRIVING. HOWEVER; TWR ALWAYS DEPARTED THEM OVER THE TXWY B PARALLEL TO RWY 25 AND INSTRUCTED THEM TO TURN TO WHATEVER HDG THEY WERE GOING TO AT THE END OF THE RWY. THIS PROC HAS ALWAYS PROVIDED A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF SEPARATION. AS I HEARD THIS HELI INITIALLY CALL THE TWR; WHILE IN THE HOVER TAXI OVER TXWY B; I EXPECTED TO HEAR THE TWR INSTRUCT THEM TO DEPART PARALLEL TO THE RWY AND THEN TURN AT THE END. WHEN TOLEDO TWR TOLD THE HELI TO TURN EARLY; THIS ADDED TO MY SURPRISE! I FEEL THAT THIS EVENT OCCURRED DUE TO THE FACT THAT TOLEDO TWR DID NOT PROVIDE PROPER ACFT SEPARATION. THE FACT THAT WE WERE THE LNDG ACFT ADDS TO MY FRUSTRATION. THERE WASN'T MUCH MORE FOR MY FO AND I TO DO; OTHER THAN STOP THE ACFT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. THE TWR MAYHAVE FELT THAT WE WERE GOING TO TURN R ON TXWY B9; HOWEVER; THAT WOULD HAVE TAKEN EXCESSIVE BRAKING IN MY OPINION AND WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PRUDENT. SAFETY SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST; ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE PAX INVOLVED!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.