|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||0601 To 1200|
|Locale Reference||airport : zzz.airport|
|Altitude||agl single value : 0|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||SF 340B|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 121|
|Flight Phase||ground : holding|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : commercial|
|Anomaly||other anomaly other|
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
other flight crewb
|Resolutory Action||none taken : unable|
The plane was brought over by the ground crew from the hangar. It still had about an inch of ice coating it from the freezing rain the night before and there was moderate snow currently falling. I knew it was going to be questionable to get out within the holdover time with the moderate snow falling; as we attempted it the night before and that flight ended up canceling. There is only type 1 deice available here and we were going to have to use runway 34 today; due to the high gusty winds from the north; so a much longer taxi time was required. I asked the ground crew how they planned to deice us; since the txwys were closed and not plowed. They said that they would follow us as we back taxied on the runway into position and hold for runway 34; we would shut down and they would spray us down there. They had an airport facilities person accompany them; so they had radio contact to hear the CTAF frequency. I had never deiced on the runway before; but they said that this was how they occasionally had to do it there; when the WX required it. I conferred with dispatch and they suggested the same thing; to shut down and be deiced on the runway. The first officer informed the area traffic on CTAF of our intentions; and as I back taxied he called ZZZ FSS to get the clearance. We also asked for at least 15 mins for a clearance void time; as we knew it would take a little time to get deiced. We received an extended clearance void time and began the deice procedure. A few mins before our clearance was to expire; we called FSS again to ask for a 5 min extension. They said they were unable because there was a baron being vectored in for the NDB runway 34 approach. We hadn't heard any calls from any other traffic; so we made a call on CTAF stating that we were on the runway and it would be a few mins before we were clear. We were unable to get the deice crew's attention; because they were behind the plane. I tried all the various lights to get their attention. Finally; I decided to have the flight attendant open the door and tell them that we had to get off the runway due to an inbound aircraft. The inbound aircraft did a missed approach. I do not know if they ever saw the airport; as the ceiling was low. We started back up and taxied on the runway because the only way to clear it was from the other end. We continued to the ramp and waited for the ground crew to shut down. I consulted with dispatch and advised that I thought we needed to wait until the snow slowed down; as I was not going to shut down on the runway to be deiced again and getting deiced at the hold short line of runway with the moderate snow would not keep the snow off the wings. They concurred and we delayed the flight and waited for the snow fall to slow down. I called the chief pilot and he felt that we did nothing wrong by shutting down on the runway; especially since we had received a clearance. He agreed that there were no other options; since the taxiway was not plowed and we had to use runway 34. Taxiway not plowed (or at least a portion) to allow for deice near the runway but not on the runway. Chief pilot suggested asking the airport operations crew to plow a portion of the end of taxiway near runway 34; but he replied that they were having a tough enough time keeping the runway plowed and just plowing a portion of the taxiway would take at least an hour. So; we delayed that flight and 5 hours later; the snow slowed down to light snow and we were able to leave uneventfully. Provide ground crew with a radio to have proper communication with flight crew and or operations. Plow taxiway or at least a small section near the departure end of runway 34 so aircraft can exit the runway after back taxi and be deiced while still clear of the runway. Most importantly; provide stations (especially in the far north stations with type 4).
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SAAB 340 WAS DEICED ON THE RWY AT UNCONTROLLED ARPT. AFTER HEARING ANOTHER ACFT EXECUTE A MISSED APCH; THEY TAXIED OFF THE RWY.
Narrative: THE PLANE WAS BROUGHT OVER BY THE GND CREW FROM THE HANGAR. IT STILL HAD ABOUT AN INCH OF ICE COATING IT FROM THE FREEZING RAIN THE NIGHT BEFORE AND THERE WAS MODERATE SNOW CURRENTLY FALLING. I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE QUESTIONABLE TO GET OUT WITHIN THE HOLDOVER TIME WITH THE MODERATE SNOW FALLING; AS WE ATTEMPTED IT THE NIGHT BEFORE AND THAT FLT ENDED UP CANCELING. THERE IS ONLY TYPE 1 DEICE AVAILABLE HERE AND WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO USE RWY 34 TODAY; DUE TO THE HIGH GUSTY WINDS FROM THE N; SO A MUCH LONGER TAXI TIME WAS REQUIRED. I ASKED THE GND CREW HOW THEY PLANNED TO DEICE US; SINCE THE TXWYS WERE CLOSED AND NOT PLOWED. THEY SAID THAT THEY WOULD FOLLOW US AS WE BACK TAXIED ON THE RWY INTO POS AND HOLD FOR RWY 34; WE WOULD SHUT DOWN AND THEY WOULD SPRAY US DOWN THERE. THEY HAD AN ARPT FACILITIES PERSON ACCOMPANY THEM; SO THEY HAD RADIO CONTACT TO HEAR THE CTAF FREQ. I HAD NEVER DEICED ON THE RWY BEFORE; BUT THEY SAID THAT THIS WAS HOW THEY OCCASIONALLY HAD TO DO IT THERE; WHEN THE WX REQUIRED IT. I CONFERRED WITH DISPATCH AND THEY SUGGESTED THE SAME THING; TO SHUT DOWN AND BE DEICED ON THE RWY. THE FO INFORMED THE AREA TFC ON CTAF OF OUR INTENTIONS; AND AS I BACK TAXIED HE CALLED ZZZ FSS TO GET THE CLRNC. WE ALSO ASKED FOR AT LEAST 15 MINS FOR A CLRNC VOID TIME; AS WE KNEW IT WOULD TAKE A LITTLE TIME TO GET DEICED. WE RECEIVED AN EXTENDED CLRNC VOID TIME AND BEGAN THE DEICE PROC. A FEW MINS BEFORE OUR CLRNC WAS TO EXPIRE; WE CALLED FSS AGAIN TO ASK FOR A 5 MIN EXTENSION. THEY SAID THEY WERE UNABLE BECAUSE THERE WAS A BARON BEING VECTORED IN FOR THE NDB RWY 34 APCH. WE HADN'T HEARD ANY CALLS FROM ANY OTHER TFC; SO WE MADE A CALL ON CTAF STATING THAT WE WERE ON THE RWY AND IT WOULD BE A FEW MINS BEFORE WE WERE CLR. WE WERE UNABLE TO GET THE DEICE CREW'S ATTN; BECAUSE THEY WERE BEHIND THE PLANE. I TRIED ALL THE VARIOUS LIGHTS TO GET THEIR ATTN. FINALLY; I DECIDED TO HAVE THE FLT ATTENDANT OPEN THE DOOR AND TELL THEM THAT WE HAD TO GET OFF THE RWY DUE TO AN INBOUND ACFT. THE INBOUND ACFT DID A MISSED APCH. I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY EVER SAW THE ARPT; AS THE CEILING WAS LOW. WE STARTED BACK UP AND TAXIED ON THE RWY BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY TO CLR IT WAS FROM THE OTHER END. WE CONTINUED TO THE RAMP AND WAITED FOR THE GND CREW TO SHUT DOWN. I CONSULTED WITH DISPATCH AND ADVISED THAT I THOUGHT WE NEEDED TO WAIT UNTIL THE SNOW SLOWED DOWN; AS I WAS NOT GOING TO SHUT DOWN ON THE RWY TO BE DEICED AGAIN AND GETTING DEICED AT THE HOLD SHORT LINE OF RWY WITH THE MODERATE SNOW WOULD NOT KEEP THE SNOW OFF THE WINGS. THEY CONCURRED AND WE DELAYED THE FLT AND WAITED FOR THE SNOW FALL TO SLOW DOWN. I CALLED THE CHIEF PLT AND HE FELT THAT WE DID NOTHING WRONG BY SHUTTING DOWN ON THE RWY; ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAD RECEIVED A CLRNC. HE AGREED THAT THERE WERE NO OTHER OPTIONS; SINCE THE TXWY WAS NOT PLOWED AND WE HAD TO USE RWY 34. TXWY NOT PLOWED (OR AT LEAST A PORTION) TO ALLOW FOR DEICE NEAR THE RWY BUT NOT ON THE RWY. CHIEF PLT SUGGESTED ASKING THE ARPT OPS CREW TO PLOW A PORTION OF THE END OF TXWY NEAR RWY 34; BUT HE REPLIED THAT THEY WERE HAVING A TOUGH ENOUGH TIME KEEPING THE RWY PLOWED AND JUST PLOWING A PORTION OF THE TXWY WOULD TAKE AT LEAST AN HR. SO; WE DELAYED THAT FLT AND 5 HRS LATER; THE SNOW SLOWED DOWN TO LIGHT SNOW AND WE WERE ABLE TO LEAVE UNEVENTFULLY. PROVIDE GND CREW WITH A RADIO TO HAVE PROPER COM WITH FLT CREW AND OR OPS. PLOW TXWY OR AT LEAST A SMALL SECTION NEAR THE DEP END OF RWY 34 SO ACFT CAN EXIT THE RWY AFTER BACK TAXI AND BE DEICED WHILE STILL CLR OF THE RWY. MOST IMPORTANTLY; PROVIDE STATIONS (ESPECIALLY IN THE FAR N STATIONS WITH TYPE 4).
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.