|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Locale Reference||airport : zzz.airport|
|Altitude||agl single value : 0|
|Controlling Facilities||tower : ptk.tower|
|Operator||common carrier : air taxi|
|Make Model Name||Beech 1900|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 135|
|Flight Phase||ground : preflight|
|Affiliation||company : air taxi|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : commercial|
|Affiliation||company : air taxi|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Anomaly||non adherence : published procedure|
non adherence : company policies
non adherence : far
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Resolutory Action||none taken : detected after the fact|
Flight Crew Human Performance
|Primary Problem||Flight Crew Human Performance|
Not really sure why a new weight and balance was not done. Not really sure if one was required at this time. Compounding this was weather and ground equipment not being available/working were factors in not filling out the appropriate paperwork. Discussions with ramper and going over the de-ice process; informing passengers. The thought of another weight and balance never entered the picture. Since captain pen and inked the first release; were we being re-released? Or does acceptance of the second release which matched the first one that was pen and inked constitute a new release? Nothing about the flight had been changed; other than the addition of the alternate; which was pen and inked off the first one. The lack type 4 anti-ice fluid in ZZZ. The tug not working to de-ice at the side of a runway with type 1. No radio in the tug to communicate with flight crews during remote de-icing. No procedure for remote de-ice operations in ZZZ. Ramp had only done this one time before. On the afternoon of 2/2007; inbound flight delayed. Was snowing; we had to de-ice. Only type 1 available in ZZZ. WX combined with the snow; only had holdover time of 2 to 4 minutes. After de-ice; started up and taxi to runway 27. About half way to the end of runway 27 accumulation of snow on the wings. ZZZ operations called to tell us that dispatch wanted to give us a new alternate. While talking with operations we came to conclusion we had to de-ice at the end of the runway. Operations informed us that they were having problems starting the tug. Captain called dispatch and told them of tug issue. Dispatch had a new release and captain pen and inked first release with new alternate and WX. ZZZ could not de-ice us as requested. Captain called dispatch; told them we were going to have to go back to the gate; de-ice and get new release. Taxied back. Captain got new release and handed new top sheet to operations. About 5 minutes later ZZZ got tug started. Game plan set up for de-ice at threshold of runway 27. Had to come up with game plan before taxi as tug had no radio. De-iced at the end of the runway; and departed. New weight and balance not made with new release. Got a call from the captain that he didn't do a new weight and balance sheet with the new release that he accepted. He stated that we may have needed to do that as we had two out times since we had to taxi back to the terminal. As I said above; I'm not too sure if indeed a new weight and balance sheet is required. Spoke to a manager the other day and discussed how not all the release is covered in initial/recurrent on the first officer side. Basics are usually covered and a few notable exceptions. Also found out that a lot of things that need to be done concerning the release are usually found out 'on the job training' side. It's most likely impossible to go over every scenario; however; I would think that training department could place more emphasis in either initial or the captain upgrade class. Not having upgraded to captain I don't know if they do that already. Put some friggin type 4 de-ice fluid at all airports within 5 miles of lake michigan; or any other great lake for that matter. There's this thing called lake front effect snow/ice/fog. Apparently the company's never heard of this. I would think that they would want that at their airports so that more than a 2 to 4 minute holdover time would exist.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B1900 DEPARTED MBL WITHOUT A CURRENT WT AND BALANCE.
Narrative: NOT REALLY SURE WHY A NEW WEIGHT AND BALANCE WAS NOT DONE. NOT REALLY SURE IF ONE WAS REQUIRED AT THIS TIME. COMPOUNDING THIS WAS WEATHER AND GROUND EQUIPMENT NOT BEING AVAILABLE/WORKING WERE FACTORS IN NOT FILLING OUT THE APPROPRIATE PAPERWORK. DISCUSSIONS WITH RAMPER AND GOING OVER THE DE-ICE PROCESS; INFORMING PASSENGERS. THE THOUGHT OF ANOTHER WEIGHT AND BALANCE NEVER ENTERED THE PICTURE. SINCE CAPT PEN AND INKED THE FIRST RELEASE; WERE WE BEING RE-RELEASED? OR DOES ACCEPTANCE OF THE SECOND RELEASE WHICH MATCHED THE FIRST ONE THAT WAS PEN AND INKED CONSTITUTE A NEW RELEASE? NOTHING ABOUT THE FLIGHT HAD BEEN CHANGED; OTHER THAN THE ADDITION OF THE ALTERNATE; WHICH WAS PEN AND INKED OFF THE FIRST ONE. THE LACK TYPE 4 ANTI-ICE FLUID IN ZZZ. THE TUG NOT WORKING TO DE-ICE AT THE SIDE OF A RUNWAY WITH TYPE 1. NO RADIO IN THE TUG TO COMMUNICATE WITH FLIGHT CREWS DURING REMOTE DE-ICING. NO PROCEDURE FOR REMOTE DE-ICE OPERATIONS IN ZZZ. RAMP HAD ONLY DONE THIS ONE TIME BEFORE. ON THE AFTERNOON OF 2/2007; INBOUND FLIGHT DELAYED. WAS SNOWING; WE HAD TO DE-ICE. ONLY TYPE 1 AVAILABLE IN ZZZ. WX COMBINED WITH THE SNOW; ONLY HAD HOLDOVER TIME OF 2 TO 4 MINUTES. AFTER DE-ICE; STARTED UP AND TAXI TO RUNWAY 27. ABOUT HALF WAY TO THE END OF RWY 27 ACCUMULATION OF SNOW ON THE WINGS. ZZZ OPERATIONS CALLED TO TELL US THAT DISPATCH WANTED TO GIVE US A NEW ALTERNATE. WHILE TALKING WITH OPERATIONS WE CAME TO CONCLUSION WE HAD TO DE-ICE AT THE END OF THE RUNWAY. OPERATIONS INFORMED US THAT THEY WERE HAVING PROBLEMS STARTING THE TUG. CAPTAIN CALLED DISPATCH AND TOLD THEM OF TUG ISSUE. DISPATCH HAD A NEW RELEASE AND CAPT PEN AND INKED FIRST RELEASE WITH NEW ALTERNATE AND WX. ZZZ COULD NOT DE-ICE US AS REQUESTED. CAPT CALLED DISPATCH; TOLD THEM WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE GATE; DE-ICE AND GET NEW RELEASE. TAXIED BACK. CAPT GOT NEW RELEASE AND HANDED NEW TOP SHEET TO OPS. ABOUT 5 MINUTES LATER ZZZ GOT TUG STARTED. GAME PLAN SET UP FOR DE-ICE AT THRESHOLD OF RUNWAY 27. HAD TO COME UP WITH GAME PLAN BEFORE TAXI AS TUG HAD NO RADIO. DE-ICED AT THE END OF THE RUNWAY; AND DEPARTED. NEW WEIGHT AND BALANCE NOT MADE WITH NEW RELEASE. GOT A CALL FROM THE CAPTAIN THAT HE DIDN'T DO A NEW WEIGHT AND BALANCE SHEET WITH THE NEW RELEASE THAT HE ACCEPTED. HE STATED THAT WE MAY HAVE NEEDED TO DO THAT AS WE HAD TWO OUT TIMES SINCE WE HAD TO TAXI BACK TO THE TERMINAL. AS I SAID ABOVE; I'M NOT TOO SURE IF INDEED A NEW WT AND BAL SHEET IS REQUIRED. SPOKE TO A MANAGER THE OTHER DAY AND DISCUSSED HOW NOT ALL THE RELEASE IS COVERED IN INITIAL/RECURRENT ON THE FO SIDE. BASICS ARE USUALLY COVERED AND A FEW NOTABLE EXCEPTIONS. ALSO FOUND OUT THAT A LOT OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE CONCERNING THE RELEASE ARE USUALLY FOUND OUT 'ON THE JOB TRAINING' SIDE. IT'S MOST LIKELY IMPOSSIBLE TO GO OVER EVERY SCENARIO; HOWEVER; I WOULD THINK THAT TRAINING DEPARTMENT COULD PLACE MORE EMPHASIS IN EITHER INITIAL OR THE CAPTAIN UPGRADE CLASS. NOT HAVING UPGRADED TO CAPTAIN I DON'T KNOW IF THEY DO THAT ALREADY. PUT SOME FRIGGIN TYPE 4 DE-ICE FLUID AT ALL AIRPORTS WITHIN 5 MILES OF LAKE MICHIGAN; OR ANY OTHER GREAT LAKE FOR THAT MATTER. THERE'S THIS THING CALLED LAKE FRONT EFFECT SNOW/ICE/FOG. APPARENTLY THE COMPANY'S NEVER HEARD OF THIS. I WOULD THINK THAT THEY WOULD WANT THAT AT THEIR AIRPORTS SO THAT MORE THAN A 2 TO 4 MINUTE HOLDOVER TIME WOULD EXIST.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.