Narrative:

Los angeles is known for having complex arrival procedures. When approach control adds dramatically to the complexity late in the game; it makes for an impossible and maybe dangerous situation as well. Because of the complexity; I try to prepare carefully; thoroughly; and early. On this flight; it was no different. We made sure that seavu arrival was loaded into the FMS properly; including transitions; altitudes and speeds. We even loaded a different approach into rt.2 just to be ahead. The FMS box was set at .79 mach/300 KT speed for a normal descent. After several step descent we were cleared for the seavu arrival and I put 7000 in the altitude window. A few mi before konzl we were told to increase speed to 320 KTS or greater. Just after I entered that in the FMS; the speed automatically changed to 280 KTS. I realized it was for the konzl intersection restr. I overrode it manually; but now had to calculate all descent rates mentally; as it would no longer fly RNAV path. After the restr at dixon intersection; 12000 ft; I asked the first officer to request a slow to 250 KTS. ATC replied to keep the speed up and slow after leaving 10000 ft. I assumed ATC meant to slow at 10000 ft and then descend as it would be illegal the other way. About this time; I realized I needed a maximum effort slow to make the restr of 9700 ft or below at taroc. I ask first officer to request immediate slow down; but frequency was blocked. Soon; what I believe was another voice on ATC; told us to slow to 250 KTS. With full speed brake; I realized I would not meet the speed and altitude restr. I elected to descend below 10000 ft at 280 KTS. We crossed taroc at 9800 ft and 280 KTS. I felt the extra speed was not as great a safety risk as being too high above an altitude rest. With this behind us; we were then cleared for an approach to runway 25R before the normal transition and had to scramble to not cross altitudes below restrs; since lax has many restrs that flying a GS would violate. I recommend that ATC keep changes to complex arrival procedures at a minimum or else just drop back to old fashioned vectors. I also learned that if I have to resort to flying the way we did in old manual airplanes; we remember to use the altitude window as we did; updating after each restr; so that it is easier to be aware of the next restr. And finally; lax could simplify everything by just using their old long-range ILS and GS system.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A B767-400 FLT CREW DEVIATED FROM XING RESTR ALT AND EXCEEDED 250 KTS BELOW 10000 FT WHILE TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE SCT REQUEST FOR HIGH SPD ON SEAVU ARR TO LAX.

Narrative: LOS ANGELES IS KNOWN FOR HAVING COMPLEX ARR PROCS. WHEN APCH CTL ADDS DRAMATICALLY TO THE COMPLEXITY LATE IN THE GAME; IT MAKES FOR AN IMPOSSIBLE AND MAYBE DANGEROUS SITUATION AS WELL. BECAUSE OF THE COMPLEXITY; I TRY TO PREPARE CAREFULLY; THOROUGHLY; AND EARLY. ON THIS FLT; IT WAS NO DIFFERENT. WE MADE SURE THAT SEAVU ARR WAS LOADED INTO THE FMS PROPERLY; INCLUDING TRANSITIONS; ALTS AND SPDS. WE EVEN LOADED A DIFFERENT APCH INTO RT.2 JUST TO BE AHEAD. THE FMS BOX WAS SET AT .79 MACH/300 KT SPD FOR A NORMAL DSCNT. AFTER SEVERAL STEP DSCNT WE WERE CLRED FOR THE SEAVU ARR AND I PUT 7000 IN THE ALT WINDOW. A FEW MI BEFORE KONZL WE WERE TOLD TO INCREASE SPD TO 320 KTS OR GREATER. JUST AFTER I ENTERED THAT IN THE FMS; THE SPD AUTOMATICALLY CHANGED TO 280 KTS. I REALIZED IT WAS FOR THE KONZL INTXN RESTR. I OVERRODE IT MANUALLY; BUT NOW HAD TO CALCULATE ALL DSCNT RATES MENTALLY; AS IT WOULD NO LONGER FLY RNAV PATH. AFTER THE RESTR AT DIXON INTXN; 12000 FT; I ASKED THE FO TO REQUEST A SLOW TO 250 KTS. ATC REPLIED TO KEEP THE SPD UP AND SLOW AFTER LEAVING 10000 FT. I ASSUMED ATC MEANT TO SLOW AT 10000 FT AND THEN DSND AS IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL THE OTHER WAY. ABOUT THIS TIME; I REALIZED I NEEDED A MAX EFFORT SLOW TO MAKE THE RESTR OF 9700 FT OR BELOW AT TAROC. I ASK FO TO REQUEST IMMEDIATE SLOW DOWN; BUT FREQ WAS BLOCKED. SOON; WHAT I BELIEVE WAS ANOTHER VOICE ON ATC; TOLD US TO SLOW TO 250 KTS. WITH FULL SPD BRAKE; I REALIZED I WOULD NOT MEET THE SPD AND ALT RESTR. I ELECTED TO DSND BELOW 10000 FT AT 280 KTS. WE CROSSED TAROC AT 9800 FT AND 280 KTS. I FELT THE EXTRA SPD WAS NOT AS GREAT A SAFETY RISK AS BEING TOO HIGH ABOVE AN ALT REST. WITH THIS BEHIND US; WE WERE THEN CLRED FOR AN APCH TO RWY 25R BEFORE THE NORMAL TRANSITION AND HAD TO SCRAMBLE TO NOT CROSS ALTS BELOW RESTRS; SINCE LAX HAS MANY RESTRS THAT FLYING A GS WOULD VIOLATE. I RECOMMEND THAT ATC KEEP CHANGES TO COMPLEX ARR PROCS AT A MINIMUM OR ELSE JUST DROP BACK TO OLD FASHIONED VECTORS. I ALSO LEARNED THAT IF I HAVE TO RESORT TO FLYING THE WAY WE DID IN OLD MANUAL AIRPLANES; WE REMEMBER TO USE THE ALT WINDOW AS WE DID; UPDATING AFTER EACH RESTR; SO THAT IT IS EASIER TO BE AWARE OF THE NEXT RESTR. AND FINALLY; LAX COULD SIMPLIFY EVERYTHING BY JUST USING THEIR OLD LONG-RANGE ILS AND GS SYS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.