Narrative:

The flight was originally planned with a takeoff gross weight of 608.2 pounds. The airport was departing on the runway 28L/right. The sfo VOR was OTS. The 'engine failure on takeoff' procedure (t-proc) for runway 28L/right is predicated on a turn at 2 DME from the sfo VOR to intercept and track the sfo 296 degree radial. The sfo detailed page lists an alternate t-proc to use if the sfo VOR and DME are OTS. It also states; 'use ACARS takeoff weights denoted. Use these weights when sfo VOR OTS.' the most favorable of these weights (28RO) listed a maximum takeoff weight about 6000 pounds less than our planned takeoff weight. When the captain conferred with dispatch; the dispatcher stated that a B777 could use the original weights and t-proc because the t-proc could be flown using FMS as a substitute for the VOR. She referenced the paragraphs entitled 'NAVAID OTS' and 'FMS NAVAID/waypoint substitution' found in the manual. The captain disagreed pointing out that the first sentence of the 'NAVAID OTS' paragraph seems to require that an alternate t-proc be followed if one is published. The problem became moot when the weight dropped enough and the headwind increased enough to allow a packs-off takeoff using the 28RO weights. The basic dispute between the captain and the dispatcher about whether the original t-proc can be used remains unresolved. Since the sfo VOR will be OTS for some time; this problem needs to be resolved quickly.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B777 CAPT AND DISPATCHER DISAGREE AS TO WHETHER AN FMS GENERATED DISPLAY CAN BE SUBSTITUTED FOR AN OTS VOR FOR A SPECIAL ENG FAIL PROC AT SFO.

Narrative: THE FLT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED WITH A TKOF GROSS WT OF 608.2 LBS. THE ARPT WAS DEPARTING ON THE RWY 28L/R. THE SFO VOR WAS OTS. THE 'ENG FAILURE ON TKOF' PROC (T-PROC) FOR RWY 28L/R IS PREDICATED ON A TURN AT 2 DME FROM THE SFO VOR TO INTERCEPT AND TRACK THE SFO 296 DEG RADIAL. THE SFO DETAILED PAGE LISTS AN ALTERNATE T-PROC TO USE IF THE SFO VOR AND DME ARE OTS. IT ALSO STATES; 'USE ACARS TKOF WTS DENOTED. USE THESE WTS WHEN SFO VOR OTS.' THE MOST FAVORABLE OF THESE WTS (28RO) LISTED A MAX TKOF WT ABOUT 6000 LBS LESS THAN OUR PLANNED TKOF WT. WHEN THE CAPT CONFERRED WITH DISPATCH; THE DISPATCHER STATED THAT A B777 COULD USE THE ORIGINAL WTS AND T-PROC BECAUSE THE T-PROC COULD BE FLOWN USING FMS AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR THE VOR. SHE REFED THE PARAGRAPHS ENTITLED 'NAVAID OTS' AND 'FMS NAVAID/WAYPOINT SUBSTITUTION' FOUND IN THE MANUAL. THE CAPT DISAGREED POINTING OUT THAT THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THE 'NAVAID OTS' PARAGRAPH SEEMS TO REQUIRE THAT AN ALTERNATE T-PROC BE FOLLOWED IF ONE IS PUBLISHED. THE PROB BECAME MOOT WHEN THE WT DROPPED ENOUGH AND THE HEADWIND INCREASED ENOUGH TO ALLOW A PACKS-OFF TKOF USING THE 28RO WTS. THE BASIC DISPUTE BTWN THE CAPT AND THE DISPATCHER ABOUT WHETHER THE ORIGINAL T-PROC CAN BE USED REMAINS UNRESOLVED. SINCE THE SFO VOR WILL BE OTS FOR SOME TIME; THIS PROB NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED QUICKLY.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.