N90 handoff controller described operational deviation when training session became very busy and bo...

Attributes
ACN	701004
Time
Date	200606
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : bwz.vor
State Reference	NY
Altitude	msl single value : 12000
Environment
Light	Daylight
Person 1
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : handoff position
Qualification	controller : radar
Experience	controller radar : 17
ASRS Report	701004
Person 2
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : approach instruction : instructor
Events
Anomaly	airspace violation : entry non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Deviation

Narrative:

A cpc controller was training a supervisor on west radar position at N90 (new york TRACON). Heavy departure traffic with volume above the supervisor's ability. Controller training her did not stop departures until control was lost. As a handoff I tried to 'point out' aircraft that were too close to ZNY's airspace. The aircraft are supposed to be at or above 14000 ft west of bwz VOR (crossing restr) yet they were at 12000 ft. At one point the controller in ZNY told me she/he had traffic at 13500 ft descending and for me to miss that traffic. When I tried to relay this information to the trainee and trainer; I was told to 'shut up' and told I was not helping. This was out of control and I was trying to help keep airplanes apart yet they (the trainee and trainer) could not see the traffic ZNY told me about because they were not looking at enough airspace and they were too far behind the 'power curve' to listen to me tell them they had to climb and turn to miss someone else's traffic.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: N90 HDOF CTLR DESCRIBED OPDEV WHEN TRAINING SESSION BECAME VERY BUSY AND BOTH INSTRUCTOR AND STUDENT FAILED TO ENSURE PROPER XING ALTS.

Narrative: A CPC CTLR WAS TRAINING A SUPVR ON W RADAR POS AT N90 (NEW YORK TRACON). HVY DEP TFC WITH VOLUME ABOVE THE SUPVR'S ABILITY. CTLR TRAINING HER DID NOT STOP DEPS UNTIL CTL WAS LOST. AS A HDOF I TRIED TO 'POINT OUT' ACFT THAT WERE TOO CLOSE TO ZNY'S AIRSPACE. THE ACFT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AT OR ABOVE 14000 FT W OF BWZ VOR (XING RESTR) YET THEY WERE AT 12000 FT. AT ONE POINT THE CTLR IN ZNY TOLD ME SHE/HE HAD TFC AT 13500 FT DSNDING AND FOR ME TO MISS THAT TFC. WHEN I TRIED TO RELAY THIS INFO TO THE TRAINEE AND TRAINER; I WAS TOLD TO 'SHUT UP' AND TOLD I WAS NOT HELPING. THIS WAS OUT OF CTL AND I WAS TRYING TO HELP KEEP AIRPLANES APART YET THEY (THE TRAINEE AND TRAINER) COULD NOT SEE THE TFC ZNY TOLD ME ABOUT BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT LOOKING AT ENOUGH AIRSPACE AND THEY WERE TOO FAR BEHIND THE 'PWR CURVE' TO LISTEN TO ME TELL THEM THEY HAD TO CLB AND TURN TO MISS SOMEONE ELSE'S TFC.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

N90 handoff controller described operational deviation when training session became very busy and both instructor and student failed to ensure proper crossing altitudes.