C182RG instructor and student have an near midair collision during climb to altitude vicinity of gai...

Attributes
ACN	697938
Time
Date	200605
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : pct.tracon
State Reference	VA
Altitude	msl single value : 2000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : pct.tracon
Operator	general aviation : instructional
Make Model Name	Skywagon 185
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	climbout : initial
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tracon : pct.tracon
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Flight Phase	cruise : level
Person 1
Affiliation	other
Function	flight crew : single pilot instruction : instructor
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 4600 flight time type : 600
ASRS Report	697938
Person 2
Affiliation	other
Function	flight crew : single pilot instruction : trainee
Events
Anomaly	conflict : nmac non adherence : required legal separation
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued alert flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Miss Distance	horizontal : 100 vertical : 100
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	Ambiguous

Narrative:

While on an IFR departure from gai to direct VOR EMI; our pilot trainee (instrument) reported out of 1600-3000 ft to potomac departure. The controller called traffic alert '3 O'clock position' when we were approximately 2000 ft. I; the cfii; picked up the r-l crossing traffic approximately 100 ft above. We were in the 9 O'clock position of the crossing traffic. The area is an ADIZ and about 2-3 NM south of gai is the frz of washington; dc. I assume the other aircraft was communicating on 126.75 for ADIZ requirements -- we were on 128.70 for departure; 126.75 does not necessarily give TA. I believe the crossing aircraft was coming from the east through the bwi/dca flyway and staying north of gai about 500 ft above the pattern (1539 ft) to stay clear of the frz. This brings the crossing aircraft directly through the departure area of gai. I would think going directly over gai 1000 ft above pattern altitude would be safer. ATC has done this to me over jfk; cle; lax. It would help if the FAA would publish information to help (at least ADIZ traffic) educate pilots.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: C182RG INSTRUCTOR AND STUDENT HAVE AN NMAC DURING CLB TO ALT VICINITY OF GAI IN THE DCA ADIZ.

Narrative: WHILE ON AN IFR DEP FROM GAI TO DIRECT VOR EMI; OUR PLT TRAINEE (INST) RPTED OUT OF 1600-3000 FT TO POTOMAC DEP. THE CTLR CALLED TFC ALERT '3 O'CLOCK POS' WHEN WE WERE APPROX 2000 FT. I; THE CFII; PICKED UP THE R-L XING TFC APPROX 100 FT ABOVE. WE WERE IN THE 9 O'CLOCK POS OF THE XING TFC. THE AREA IS AN ADIZ AND ABOUT 2-3 NM S OF GAI IS THE FRZ OF WASHINGTON; DC. I ASSUME THE OTHER ACFT WAS COMMUNICATING ON 126.75 FOR ADIZ REQUIREMENTS -- WE WERE ON 128.70 FOR DEP; 126.75 DOES NOT NECESSARILY GIVE TA. I BELIEVE THE XING ACFT WAS COMING FROM THE E THROUGH THE BWI/DCA FLYWAY AND STAYING N OF GAI ABOUT 500 FT ABOVE THE PATTERN (1539 FT) TO STAY CLR OF THE FRZ. THIS BRINGS THE XING ACFT DIRECTLY THROUGH THE DEP AREA OF GAI. I WOULD THINK GOING DIRECTLY OVER GAI 1000 FT ABOVE PATTERN ALT WOULD BE SAFER. ATC HAS DONE THIS TO ME OVER JFK; CLE; LAX. IT WOULD HELP IF THE FAA WOULD PUBLISH INFO TO HELP (AT LEAST ADIZ TFC) EDUCATE PLTS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

C182RG instructor and student have an near midair collision during climb to altitude vicinity of gai in the dca ADIZ.