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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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| Attributes | |
| ACN | 649283 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200502 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| State Reference | PA |
| Altitude | msl single value : 18000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Beech 1900 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : radar |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument |
| Experience | controller non radar : 3 controller radar : 20 flight time total : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 649283 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment : conflict alert other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued alert |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 8400 vertical : 900 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
I reversed the visual separation rule for climbing and descending with 1 aircraft at 17000 ft and 1 aircraft at FL180. Climbed instead of descended. This is an antiquated rule. There is no difference between climbing from 17000 ft to above an aircraft at FL180; and descending from FL180 to below an aircraft at 17000 ft. It is just as safe either way since at least 1 pilot has the other aircraft in sight. If it isn't safe climbing; it isn't safe descending either. Rule makes no sense and we don't use if often enough to remember which way is good and which way is not good. Fix the rule -- safety will not be compromised.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ZOB CTLR'S MISAPPLICATION OF VISUAL SEPARATION RESULTED IN OPERROR DURING CLBING AND DSNDING INCIDENT AT FL180.
Narrative: I REVERSED THE VISUAL SEPARATION RULE FOR CLBING AND DSNDING WITH 1 ACFT AT 17000 FT AND 1 ACFT AT FL180. CLBED INSTEAD OF DSNDED. THIS IS AN ANTIQUATED RULE. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BTWN CLBING FROM 17000 FT TO ABOVE AN ACFT AT FL180; AND DSNDING FROM FL180 TO BELOW AN ACFT AT 17000 FT. IT IS JUST AS SAFE EITHER WAY SINCE AT LEAST 1 PLT HAS THE OTHER ACFT IN SIGHT. IF IT ISN'T SAFE CLBING; IT ISN'T SAFE DSNDING EITHER. RULE MAKES NO SENSE AND WE DON'T USE IF OFTEN ENOUGH TO REMEMBER WHICH WAY IS GOOD AND WHICH WAY IS NOT GOOD. FIX THE RULE -- SAFETY WILL NOT BE COMPROMISED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.