An EMB145 exceeded deicing hold time and returned for deicing. After deicing, the #2 engine start wa...

Attributes
ACN	641778
Time
Date	200412
Day	Wed
Place
Locale Reference	airport : zzz.airport
State Reference	US
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	EMB ERJ 145 ER&LR
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : preflight ground : pushback ground : parked
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
ASRS Report	641778
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : critical
Independent Detector	aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : eng fault display other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance Weather Aircraft Environmental Factor
Primary Problem	Aircraft

Narrative:

We had exceeded type one holdover time and returned to gate for deice. Number two start was normal with a right quartering crosswind. On both starts we were concerned about hot starts due to quartering tailwind and the inadvertent introduction of type 1 into the intakes. Number one start began normally but the itt slowly rose to 701 degree celcius before receding. As it receded, the 'engine indication no disp' caution was followed by a 'engine indication short disp' advisory. During discussions with maintenance operations we read off and included in the MEL the following cmc messages: engine indication display left fault, st engine control a system, st engine control B system number one N2 displayed dashed vice a number and the fadec was blank, no a or B indicated. The number two side was completely normal during and after engine start and on subsequent shutdown. After discussion with maintenance operations and dispatch we deplaned the passenger and I faxed all the data to maintenance operations. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated the #1 engine started and operated normally after the first deicing, and after the second deicing is when the engine automatic shut down. The crew is concerned the problem with the electronic engine control failure may have been caused by deicing fluid on or in the inlet sensors.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN EMB145 EXCEEDED DEICING HOLD TIME AND RETURNED FOR DEICING. AFTER DEICING, THE #2 ENG START WAS NORMAL. #1 ENG START SLOW TEMP RISE TO 701 DEGS FOLLOWED BY AUTO SHUTDOWN WITH ENG CAUTION DISPLAYS.

Narrative: WE HAD EXCEEDED TYPE ONE HOLDOVER TIME AND RETURNED TO GATE FOR DEICE. NUMBER TWO START WAS NORMAL WITH A R QUARTERING XWIND. ON BOTH STARTS WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT HOT STARTS DUE TO QUARTERING TAILWIND AND THE INADVERTENT INTRODUCTION OF TYPE 1 INTO THE INTAKES. NUMBER ONE START BEGAN NORMALLY BUT THE ITT SLOWLY ROSE TO 701 DEG CELCIUS BEFORE RECEDING. AS IT RECEDED, THE 'ENG INDICATION NO DISP' CAUTION WAS FOLLOWED BY A 'ENG INDICATION SHORT DISP' ADVISORY. DURING DISCUSSIONS WITH MAINT OPS WE READ OFF AND INCLUDED IN THE MEL THE FOLLOWING CMC MESSAGES: ENG INDICATION DISPLAY L FAULT, ST ENG CTL A SYS, ST ENG CTL B SYS NUMBER ONE N2 DISPLAYED DASHED VICE A NUMBER AND THE FADEC WAS BLANK, NO A OR B INDICATED. THE NUMBER TWO SIDE WAS COMPLETELY NORMAL DURING AND AFTER ENG START AND ON SUBSEQUENT SHUTDOWN. AFTER DISCUSSION WITH MAINT OPS AND DISPATCH WE DEPLANED THE PAX AND I FAXED ALL THE DATA TO MAINT OPS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED THE #1 ENG STARTED AND OPERATED NORMALLY AFTER THE FIRST DEICING, AND AFTER THE SECOND DEICING IS WHEN THE ENG AUTO SHUT DOWN. THE CREW IS CONCERNED THE PROB WITH THE ELECTRONIC ENG CTL FAILURE MAY HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY DEICING FLUID ON OR IN THE INLET SENSORS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

An EMB145 exceeded deicing hold time and returned for deicing. After deicing, the #2 engine start was normal. #1 engine start slow temperature rise to 701 degrees followed by automatic shutdown with engine caution displays.