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P50 controller questions B737-300 flight crew's need to execute a TCASII climb maneuver overflying issued VFR traffic while on vector for approach to phx airport.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 621959 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200106 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : phx.airport |
| State Reference | AZ |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 9700 msl bound upper : 10500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : p50.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival star : arlin |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : p50.tracon |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Flight Plan | VFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : multi engine |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 1200 |
| ASRS Report | 621959 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 5000 |
| ASRS Report | 621963 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne critical non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : returned to assigned altitude |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 7500 vertical : 300 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Environmental Factor ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Environmental Factor |
Narrative:
On arrival into phx on the airline 3 arrival, we were cleared to descend from 11000 ft to 10000 ft and given traffic at 11 O'clock position, a piper at 9500 ft. We descended to 10000 ft while searching for traffic. The traffic showed up on the TCASII at 9700 ft and we were given a TCASII TA. Upon arrival at 10000 ft, I saw the traffic and the captain reported to ATC that the traffic was in sight. Shortly after calling the traffic in sight, we received a TCASII RA 'climb, climb.' I disengaged the autoplt and began a climb of approximately 200 FPM to put the ivsi needle in the green arc. The captain reported to ATC that we were climbing in response to an RA. The controller responded by asking why we were climbing and stating that there had been no loss of separation. The captain stated that we were climbing in response to an RA. We climbed to 10500 ft before receiving the 'clear of conflict' advisory and returning to 10000 ft. The controller again questioned why we climbed, so I stated that our regulations require us to comply with a TCASII RA even when we have the traffic in sight. The controller came back several mins later and asked us to call TRACON once on the ground. The captain spoke with the controller once on the ground. Supplemental information from acn 621963: when I called approach control he said that the traffic was 500 ft below us and since we saw it there was no need to follow the RA alert. I told him that our TCASII indicated 300 ft. We were on a convergence course and I wasn't sure if the other aircraft was climbing. He seemed to understand my case and the conversation ended there.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: P50 CTLR QUESTIONS B737-300 FLT CREW'S NEED TO EXECUTE A TCASII CLB MANEUVER OVERFLYING ISSUED VFR TFC WHILE ON VECTOR FOR APCH TO PHX ARPT.
Narrative: ON ARR INTO PHX ON THE AIRLINE 3 ARR, WE WERE CLRED TO DSND FROM 11000 FT TO 10000 FT AND GIVEN TFC AT 11 O'CLOCK POS, A PIPER AT 9500 FT. WE DSNDED TO 10000 FT WHILE SEARCHING FOR TFC. THE TFC SHOWED UP ON THE TCASII AT 9700 FT AND WE WERE GIVEN A TCASII TA. UPON ARR AT 10000 FT, I SAW THE TFC AND THE CAPT RPTED TO ATC THAT THE TFC WAS IN SIGHT. SHORTLY AFTER CALLING THE TFC IN SIGHT, WE RECEIVED A TCASII RA 'CLB, CLB.' I DISENGAGED THE AUTOPLT AND BEGAN A CLB OF APPROX 200 FPM TO PUT THE IVSI NEEDLE IN THE GREEN ARC. THE CAPT RPTED TO ATC THAT WE WERE CLBING IN RESPONSE TO AN RA. THE CTLR RESPONDED BY ASKING WHY WE WERE CLBING AND STATING THAT THERE HAD BEEN NO LOSS OF SEPARATION. THE CAPT STATED THAT WE WERE CLBING IN RESPONSE TO AN RA. WE CLBED TO 10500 FT BEFORE RECEIVING THE 'CLR OF CONFLICT' ADVISORY AND RETURNING TO 10000 FT. THE CTLR AGAIN QUESTIONED WHY WE CLBED, SO I STATED THAT OUR REGS REQUIRE US TO COMPLY WITH A TCASII RA EVEN WHEN WE HAVE THE TFC IN SIGHT. THE CTLR CAME BACK SEVERAL MINS LATER AND ASKED US TO CALL TRACON ONCE ON THE GND. THE CAPT SPOKE WITH THE CTLR ONCE ON THE GND. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 621963: WHEN I CALLED APCH CTL HE SAID THAT THE TFC WAS 500 FT BELOW US AND SINCE WE SAW IT THERE WAS NO NEED TO FOLLOW THE RA ALERT. I TOLD HIM THAT OUR TCASII INDICATED 300 FT. WE WERE ON A CONVERGENCE COURSE AND I WASN'T SURE IF THE OTHER ACFT WAS CLBING. HE SEEMED TO UNDERSTAND MY CASE AND THE CONVERSATION ENDED THERE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.