A potential near midair collision between a PA44 and a military E2 8 NM northeast of fim, ca.

Attributes
ACN	611484
Time
Date	200403
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : fim.vortac
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 6500 msl bound upper : 7000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : sct.tracon
Operator	general aviation : instructional
Make Model Name	PA-44 Seminole Turbo Seminole
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	cruise : level
Route In Use	enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	VFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tracon : sct.tracon
Operator	other
Make Model Name	Hawkeye (E2)
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	cruise : level
Person 1
Affiliation	other
Function	instruction : instructor
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial pilot : instrument
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 1050 flight time type : 600
ASRS Report	611484
Person 2
Affiliation	other
Function	instruction : trainee
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	flight crew : took evasive action
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Miss Distance	horizontal : 400 vertical : 500
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

I was conducting a training flight for an mei applicant. I was on radar advisories with socal approach control (approximately 8 NM ene of fim VOR) at 6500 ft MSL. The, controller gave an instruction of 'fly heading nebound at 6500 ft. We were flying heading 030 degrees, level 6500 ft when we saw an approaching military E2 at approximately 7000 ft MSL. We made an evasive action and turned away from the E2 at the same time that the E2 took an evasive action and turned away from us. We were 'seeing and avoiding' and turned as soon as we saw them. The other aircraft queried ATC whose response was repeatedly 'what other aircraft?' we were on a discrete code with the controller. The other aircraft asked for the controller's telephone number but I was never told to call a phone number and the controller never addressed me until I told him we would be descending to 4500 ft MSL heading wbound. He said 'approved.' we flew back to the airport and were never given a telephone number to call. I did my duty as a pilot flying in VFR, but feel that the controller was deficient at that time.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A POTENTIAL NMAC BTWN A PA44 AND A MIL E2 8 NM NE OF FIM, CA.

Narrative: I WAS CONDUCTING A TRAINING FLT FOR AN MEI APPLICANT. I WAS ON RADAR ADVISORIES WITH SOCAL APCH CTL (APPROX 8 NM ENE OF FIM VOR) AT 6500 FT MSL. THE, CTLR GAVE AN INSTRUCTION OF 'FLY HDG NEBOUND AT 6500 FT. WE WERE FLYING HDG 030 DEGS, LEVEL 6500 FT WHEN WE SAW AN APCHING MIL E2 AT APPROX 7000 FT MSL. WE MADE AN EVASIVE ACTION AND TURNED AWAY FROM THE E2 AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE E2 TOOK AN EVASIVE ACTION AND TURNED AWAY FROM US. WE WERE 'SEEING AND AVOIDING' AND TURNED AS SOON AS WE SAW THEM. THE OTHER ACFT QUERIED ATC WHOSE RESPONSE WAS REPEATEDLY 'WHAT OTHER ACFT?' WE WERE ON A DISCRETE CODE WITH THE CTLR. THE OTHER ACFT ASKED FOR THE CTLR'S TELEPHONE NUMBER BUT I WAS NEVER TOLD TO CALL A PHONE NUMBER AND THE CTLR NEVER ADDRESSED ME UNTIL I TOLD HIM WE WOULD BE DSNDING TO 4500 FT MSL HDG WBOUND. HE SAID 'APPROVED.' WE FLEW BACK TO THE ARPT AND WERE NEVER GIVEN A TELEPHONE NUMBER TO CALL. I DID MY DUTY AS A PLT FLYING IN VFR, BUT FEEL THAT THE CTLR WAS DEFICIENT AT THAT TIME.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.