Narrative:

Captain, PF, departed las runway 25R, idale RNAV 2, bikrr transition, destination sfo over oal. Initial pre departure clearance was to 7000 ft. Initial contact with las departure was routine with no further climb clearance. At 5 mi from idale, first officer (PNF) queried ATC for higher. ATC did issue climb clearance to FL190 in response to our radio query at 5 mi from idale. ATC frequency was not congested. There were very long periods of silence on the frequency. Captain and first officer discussed the safety issues associated with the terrain in that area and the fact that we weren't given the altitude clearance earlier. We decided to say something to the controller. When las departure issued the frequency change to center, first officer explained politely that the reason first officer had asked for higher was that we were 5 mi from idale with a crossing restr of 9000 ft. Las departure was slightly testy and said something to the effect of 'funny that you have a crossing restr of 9000 ft because...the MVA in that area is 6700 ft.' first officer didn't pursue the issue further, but was conciliatory with a comment of 'sorry for the misunderstanding.' the safety issue is that after idale the departure transition turns sharply west into rising terrain. Despite the MVA being 6700 ft at idale, the clearance leaving us at 7000 ft certainly must have been incorrect. Certainly, we would have been wrong to have crossed idale below 9000 ft, because that is the published crossing restr. In conditions other than VMC, with the possibility of any other distraction in the cockpit, the clearance could have been a significant safety issue. Additionally, the apparent lack of awareness on the part of the controller regarding the flight path of the departure procedure (sharp turn into rising terrain with a further crossing restr of 12500 ft at shead) was alarming.

Google
 

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A B757 FLT CREW RPT ON A DELAYED CLRNC FROM DEP CTLR FOR A CLB TO 9000 FT SO AS TO COMPLY WITH THE MANDATES OF THE IDALE 2 DEP ALT XING RESTR AT IDALE, NV.

Narrative: CAPT, PF, DEPARTED LAS RWY 25R, IDALE RNAV 2, BIKRR TRANSITION, DEST SFO OVER OAL. INITIAL PDC WAS TO 7000 FT. INITIAL CONTACT WITH LAS DEP WAS ROUTINE WITH NO FURTHER CLB CLRNC. AT 5 MI FROM IDALE, FO (PNF) QUERIED ATC FOR HIGHER. ATC DID ISSUE CLB CLRNC TO FL190 IN RESPONSE TO OUR RADIO QUERY AT 5 MI FROM IDALE. ATC FREQ WAS NOT CONGESTED. THERE WERE VERY LONG PERIODS OF SILENCE ON THE FREQ. CAPT AND FO DISCUSSED THE SAFETY ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THE TERRAIN IN THAT AREA AND THE FACT THAT WE WEREN'T GIVEN THE ALT CLRNC EARLIER. WE DECIDED TO SAY SOMETHING TO THE CTLR. WHEN LAS DEP ISSUED THE FREQ CHANGE TO CTR, FO EXPLAINED POLITELY THAT THE REASON FO HAD ASKED FOR HIGHER WAS THAT WE WERE 5 MI FROM IDALE WITH A XING RESTR OF 9000 FT. LAS DEP WAS SLIGHTLY TESTY AND SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF 'FUNNY THAT YOU HAVE A XING RESTR OF 9000 FT BECAUSE...THE MVA IN THAT AREA IS 6700 FT.' FO DIDN'T PURSUE THE ISSUE FURTHER, BUT WAS CONCILIATORY WITH A COMMENT OF 'SORRY FOR THE MISUNDERSTANDING.' THE SAFETY ISSUE IS THAT AFTER IDALE THE DEP TRANSITION TURNS SHARPLY W INTO RISING TERRAIN. DESPITE THE MVA BEING 6700 FT AT IDALE, THE CLRNC LEAVING US AT 7000 FT CERTAINLY MUST HAVE BEEN INCORRECT. CERTAINLY, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG TO HAVE CROSSED IDALE BELOW 9000 FT, BECAUSE THAT IS THE PUBLISHED XING RESTR. IN CONDITIONS OTHER THAN VMC, WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ANY OTHER DISTR IN THE COCKPIT, THE CLRNC COULD HAVE BEEN A SIGNIFICANT SAFETY ISSUE. ADDITIONALLY, THE APPARENT LACK OF AWARENESS ON THE PART OF THE CTLR REGARDING THE FLT PATH OF THE DEP PROC (SHARP TURN INTO RISING TERRAIN WITH A FURTHER XING RESTR OF 12500 FT AT SHEAD) WAS ALARMING.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.