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S80 flight crew question stl controllers arrival and departure spacing when landing runway 12R. Cockpit and control tower comments lead to no conclusion.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 593323 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200309 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : stl.airport |
| State Reference | MO |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : stl.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 12r |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : roll |
| Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : stl.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| ASRS Report | 593323 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airport Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : stl.tower |
Narrative:
After receiving vectors for another aircraft forced to go around, we were cleared to land on runway 12R following an S80 cleared into position for takeoff. We landed safely with minimum spacing and so as we exited the runway, the captain told the tower controller 'that was tight.' tower snapped back, 'for me or you.' I said 'for us.' he retorted, 'you landed didn't you.' the captain then said it was 'pushing safety.' tower again shot back, 'it's your option.' I believe the stl tower has a hostile attitude, as reflected by our go around rate there. The continued pushing of stl tower is going to result in an incident unless corrective action is taken soon. The relieving crew of our aircraft expressed similar sentiments. The WX and arrival rates at stl are challenging enough without the added challenge of an uncooperative tower staff.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: S80 FLT CREW QUESTION STL CTLRS ARR AND DEP SPACING WHEN LNDG RWY 12R. COCKPIT AND CTL TWR COMMENTS LEAD TO NO CONCLUSION.
Narrative: AFTER RECEIVING VECTORS FOR ANOTHER ACFT FORCED TO GO AROUND, WE WERE CLRED TO LAND ON RWY 12R FOLLOWING AN S80 CLRED INTO POS FOR TKOF. WE LANDED SAFELY WITH MINIMUM SPACING AND SO AS WE EXITED THE RWY, THE CAPT TOLD THE TWR CTLR 'THAT WAS TIGHT.' TWR SNAPPED BACK, 'FOR ME OR YOU.' I SAID 'FOR US.' HE RETORTED, 'YOU LANDED DIDN'T YOU.' THE CAPT THEN SAID IT WAS 'PUSHING SAFETY.' TWR AGAIN SHOT BACK, 'IT'S YOUR OPTION.' I BELIEVE THE STL TWR HAS A HOSTILE ATTITUDE, AS REFLECTED BY OUR GAR RATE THERE. THE CONTINUED PUSHING OF STL TWR IS GOING TO RESULT IN AN INCIDENT UNLESS CORRECTIVE ACTION IS TAKEN SOON. THE RELIEVING CREW OF OUR ACFT EXPRESSED SIMILAR SENTIMENTS. THE WX AND ARR RATES AT STL ARE CHALLENGING ENOUGH WITHOUT THE ADDED CHALLENGE OF AN UNCOOPERATIVE TWR STAFF.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.