|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1801 To 2400|
|Locale Reference||airport : zzz.airport|
|Altitude||msl single value : 1500|
|Controlling Facilities||tower : zzz1.tower|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||B767-300 and 300 ER|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 121|
|Flight Phase||descent : approach|
landing : missed approach
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Anomaly||aircraft equipment problem : critical|
other anomaly other
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
other flight crewb
|Resolutory Action||controller : issued new clearance|
flight crew : overcame equipment problem
Chart Or Publication
Flight Crew Human Performance
The aircraft was dispatched with the #2 center electric hydraulic pump inoperative, with the condition that the #1 center electric hydraulic pump and the adp be operational which they indicated to be. On takeoff out of ZZZ we noticed that the gear and flaps were slow to retract and relatedly we got gear and flap disagree EICAS msges. We stayed slow enough to not overspeed the flaps or gear. Eventually the gear and the flaps came up and all seemed normal. On the VOR 13L approach to ZZZ1 we put the gear handle to down several miles early and started to extend the flaps. Again we expected the extentions to be slow, but not as slow as they were. Reaching abcde intersection on the approach, we could see that the left main landing gear was not yet showing down and locked. So we called missed approach and went around as per ATC instructions. We put the gear up and flaps to 5 (at altitude cap), again very slowly and after a delay all appeared normal again (gear up flaps 5). ATC started vectoring us for another approach and we immediately put the gear handle to down and again after 2 or 3 mins we were again showing the left main landing gear not down and locked. We then asked, and received from ATC, a vector to go work our problem (gear not locked down). A min later the left gear down green light finally illuminated. We asked for a vector for approach and the landing was completed uneventfully. I write this report not to admit any violations by the pilots, but to report that we were given an unsafe aircraft even though it may have been legal and seemed safe on the deferred list. I know the book says hydraulic operations will be slow, but this was beyond slow causing us a go around and needless vectoring to solve our problem, not to mention scaring the daylights out of us. I wonder if the adp was working for high demand or if we just had the 1 electric pump. There was no EICAS indication of the adp not working. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated the retraction and extension of the flaps and landing gear was excessively slow using the #1 motor driven pump and the air driven hydraulic pump. The reporter said it's the crews belief the air driven pump was not operating even though the switch was in automatic mode. The reporter stated on gear extension the gear was excessively slow and caused needless vectoring to solve the gear problem. The reporter said if the air driven pump was not operating an EICAS warning would be displayed but there was no warning. The reporter stated in the automatic mode the pump should have operated with the landing gear disagree light. The reporter stated the flight manual advises the operation will be slow, but this situation was beyond slow. The reporter said the report was entered in the logbook, but no feedback has been received from maintenance. Callback conversation with reporter from acn 589582 revealed the following information: the reporter stated there was no indication or warning the center air driven pump was not running. The reporter said the flaps and gear were excessively slow to extend. The reporter stated the placard for the inoperative #2 AC motor driven pump should have the added information on slow activation of gear and flaps if this is normal. The reporter said the hydraulics class in school never touched on this excessive time for retraction and extension of the landing gear.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B767-300 CAPT RPTS WITH #2 CENTER ELECTRIC HYDRAULIC PUMP DEFERRED AS INOP, THE TIME FOR GEAR AND FLAP RETRACTION WAS EXCESSIVE.
Narrative: THE ACFT WAS DISPATCHED WITH THE #2 CENTER ELECTRIC HYD PUMP INOP, WITH THE CONDITION THAT THE #1 CENTER ELECTRIC HYD PUMP AND THE ADP BE OPERATIONAL WHICH THEY INDICATED TO BE. ON TKOF OUT OF ZZZ WE NOTICED THAT THE GEAR AND FLAPS WERE SLOW TO RETRACT AND RELATEDLY WE GOT GEAR AND FLAP DISAGREE EICAS MSGES. WE STAYED SLOW ENOUGH TO NOT OVERSPEED THE FLAPS OR GEAR. EVENTUALLY THE GEAR AND THE FLAPS CAME UP AND ALL SEEMED NORMAL. ON THE VOR 13L APCH TO ZZZ1 WE PUT THE GEAR HANDLE TO DOWN SEVERAL MILES EARLY AND STARTED TO EXTEND THE FLAPS. AGAIN WE EXPECTED THE EXTENTIONS TO BE SLOW, BUT NOT AS SLOW AS THEY WERE. REACHING ABCDE INTXN ON THE APCH, WE COULD SEE THAT THE L MAIN LNDG GEAR WAS NOT YET SHOWING DOWN AND LOCKED. SO WE CALLED MISSED APCH AND WENT AROUND AS PER ATC INSTRUCTIONS. WE PUT THE GEAR UP AND FLAPS TO 5 (AT ALT CAP), AGAIN VERY SLOWLY AND AFTER A DELAY ALL APPEARED NORMAL AGAIN (GEAR UP FLAPS 5). ATC STARTED VECTORING US FOR ANOTHER APCH AND WE IMMEDIATELY PUT THE GEAR HANDLE TO DOWN AND AGAIN AFTER 2 OR 3 MINS WE WERE AGAIN SHOWING THE L MAIN LNDG GEAR NOT DOWN AND LOCKED. WE THEN ASKED, AND RECEIVED FROM ATC, A VECTOR TO GO WORK OUR PROB (GEAR NOT LOCKED DOWN). A MIN LATER THE L GEAR DOWN GREEN LIGHT FINALLY ILLUMINATED. WE ASKED FOR A VECTOR FOR APCH AND THE LNDG WAS COMPLETED UNEVENTFULLY. I WRITE THIS RPT NOT TO ADMIT ANY VIOLATIONS BY THE PLTS, BUT TO RPT THAT WE WERE GIVEN AN UNSAFE ACFT EVEN THOUGH IT MAY HAVE BEEN LEGAL AND SEEMED SAFE ON THE DEFERRED LIST. I KNOW THE BOOK SAYS HYD OPS WILL BE SLOW, BUT THIS WAS BEYOND SLOW CAUSING US A GAR AND NEEDLESS VECTORING TO SOLVE OUR PROB, NOT TO MENTION SCARING THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF US. I WONDER IF THE ADP WAS WORKING FOR HIGH DEMAND OR IF WE JUST HAD THE 1 ELECTRIC PUMP. THERE WAS NO EICAS INDICATION OF THE ADP NOT WORKING. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED THE RETRACTION AND EXTENSION OF THE FLAPS AND LNDG GEAR WAS EXCESSIVELY SLOW USING THE #1 MOTOR DRIVEN PUMP AND THE AIR DRIVEN HYDRAULIC PUMP. THE RPTR SAID IT'S THE CREWS BELIEF THE AIR DRIVEN PUMP WAS NOT OPERATING EVEN THOUGH THE SWITCH WAS IN AUTO MODE. THE RPTR STATED ON GEAR EXTENSION THE GEAR WAS EXCESSIVELY SLOW AND CAUSED NEEDLESS VECTORING TO SOLVE THE GEAR PROB. THE RPTR SAID IF THE AIR DRIVEN PUMP WAS NOT OPERATING AN EICAS WARNING WOULD BE DISPLAYED BUT THERE WAS NO WARNING. THE RPTR STATED IN THE AUTO MODE THE PUMP SHOULD HAVE OPERATED WITH THE LNDG GEAR DISAGREE LIGHT. THE RPTR STATED THE FLT MANUAL ADVISES THE OP WILL BE SLOW, BUT THIS SIT WAS BEYOND SLOW. THE RPTR SAID THE RPT WAS ENTERED IN THE LOGBOOK, BUT NO FEEDBACK HAS BEEN RECEIVED FROM MAINTENANCE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR FROM ACN 589582 REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED THERE WAS NO INDICATION OR WARNING THE CENTER AIR DRIVEN PUMP WAS NOT RUNNING. THE RPTR SAID THE FLAPS AND GEAR WERE EXCESSIVELY SLOW TO EXTEND. THE RPTR STATED THE PLACARD FOR THE INOPERATIVE #2 AC MOTOR DRIVEN PUMP SHOULD HAVE THE ADDED INFO ON SLOW ACTIVATION OF GEAR AND FLAPS IF THIS IS NORMAL. THE RPTR SAID THE HYDRAULICS CLASS IN SCHOOL NEVER TOUCHED ON THIS EXCESSIVE TIME FOR RETRACTION AND EXTENSION OF THE LNDG GEAR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.