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New york area helicopter pilot addresses the problem of 'pop-up tfr's' and the difficulty for users to properly inform themselves of the existence and extent of same.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 589868 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200308 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lga.airport |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl single value : 1500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Marginal |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : lga.tower |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | S-76/S-76 Mark II |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Route In Use | enroute other |
| Flight Plan | None |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : corporate |
| Function | flight crew : single pilot |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 5500 |
| ASRS Report | 589868 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : local |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Airspace Structure FAA |
| Primary Problem | FAA |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : isp.fss |
| Airspace Structure | temporary use : nyc sporting event |
Narrative:
Had numerous flts between hpn and new york city heliport 6n5 from XA00-XF30. Had a WX briefing and called FSS for tfr's in the area. No tfr's were posted. The only tfr was a previous one early in 2003 about sporting events will implement tfr's 1 hour before until 1 hour after an event for a restr 3000 ft and 3 mi. One of my flts between hpn and 6n5 we flew south on hudson river and got a clearance for 'harlem route' sbound to 6n5. We noticed a game was playing, but lga control cleared us through. On the return trip from 6n5 to hpn, we called lga control for the same 'harlem route' northbound to hpn. He denied it due to tfr for game, and we were given the 'throggs route.' these 'pop up' tfr's are a high risk of getting a violation as a pilot. Even calling prior to a flight is no guarantee of knowing when these tfr's pop up while you are en route. There is no way to know 'all game' schedules/sporting events that take place in nyc on a 'daily' routine. Being an avid sports fan isn't required as a pilot. These events are well known in advance and should be given to the FAA to be incorporated in local FSS's briefings. If my flight were to land at jra versus 6n5, I would have flown south on the hudson -- not required to get a clearance by lga (126.05) (if I was below 1100 ft.) and would have penetrated a 'pop up tfr' without knowing about it, (even with a proper WX briefing prior to departure).
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NEW YORK AREA HELI PLT ADDRESSES THE PROB OF 'POP-UP TFR'S' AND THE DIFFICULTY FOR USERS TO PROPERLY INFORM THEMSELVES OF THE EXISTENCE AND EXTENT OF SAME.
Narrative: HAD NUMEROUS FLTS BTWN HPN AND NEW YORK CITY HELIPORT 6N5 FROM XA00-XF30. HAD A WX BRIEFING AND CALLED FSS FOR TFR'S IN THE AREA. NO TFR'S WERE POSTED. THE ONLY TFR WAS A PREVIOUS ONE EARLY IN 2003 ABOUT SPORTING EVENTS WILL IMPLEMENT TFR'S 1 HR BEFORE UNTIL 1 HR AFTER AN EVENT FOR A RESTR 3000 FT AND 3 MI. ONE OF MY FLTS BTWN HPN AND 6N5 WE FLEW S ON HUDSON RIVER AND GOT A CLRNC FOR 'HARLEM RTE' SBOUND TO 6N5. WE NOTICED A GAME WAS PLAYING, BUT LGA CTL CLRED US THROUGH. ON THE RETURN TRIP FROM 6N5 TO HPN, WE CALLED LGA CTL FOR THE SAME 'HARLEM RTE' NBOUND TO HPN. HE DENIED IT DUE TO TFR FOR GAME, AND WE WERE GIVEN THE 'THROGGS RTE.' THESE 'POP UP' TFR'S ARE A HIGH RISK OF GETTING A VIOLATION AS A PLT. EVEN CALLING PRIOR TO A FLT IS NO GUARANTEE OF KNOWING WHEN THESE TFR'S POP UP WHILE YOU ARE ENRTE. THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW 'ALL GAME' SCHEDULES/SPORTING EVENTS THAT TAKE PLACE IN NYC ON A 'DAILY' ROUTINE. BEING AN AVID SPORTS FAN ISN'T REQUIRED AS A PLT. THESE EVENTS ARE WELL KNOWN IN ADVANCE AND SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE FAA TO BE INCORPORATED IN LCL FSS'S BRIEFINGS. IF MY FLT WERE TO LAND AT JRA VERSUS 6N5, I WOULD HAVE FLOWN S ON THE HUDSON -- NOT REQUIRED TO GET A CLRNC BY LGA (126.05) (IF I WAS BELOW 1100 FT.) AND WOULD HAVE PENETRATED A 'POP UP TFR' WITHOUT KNOWING ABOUT IT, (EVEN WITH A PROPER WX BRIEFING PRIOR TO DEP).
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.