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C172 instructor and student had less than legal separation with a PA28 at an uncontrolled airport traffic pattern.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 569806 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200212 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : zzz.airport |
| State Reference | US |
| Altitude | msl single value : 1800 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : zzz.tracon |
| Operator | general aviation : instructional |
| Make Model Name | Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : traffic pattern |
| Flight Plan | None |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | general aviation : personal |
| Make Model Name | PA-28 Cherokee/Archer II/Dakota/Pillan/Warrior |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around |
| Route In Use | approach : traffic pattern |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | other |
| Function | instruction : instructor oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 1150 flight time type : 600 |
| ASRS Report | 569806 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | other |
| Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : trainee |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : nmac non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment : conflict alert atc equipment other atc equipment : 4 aircraft equipment : tcas aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : 1.2 |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 200 vertical : 200 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | FAA Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
My student and I were on a left downwind for the runway. We had heard a cessna 206 call left upwind for the runway. Out of nowhere, a piper dakota flew right below us on a crosswind. The pilots radioed and said he would follow us in. As we turned base leg, I looked over and the dakota was turning into us, probably 500 ft or less from us. The dakota then questioned us, implying we were at fault. We turned final as the dakota flew right underneath us. He asked if we were on final. I stated 'we were trying to fly a final, if he would not cut us off.' the dakota executed a go around on short final. We proceeded to do a touch-and-go. After we took of again, the cessna 206 had called midfield downwind. We watched the dakota turn downwind behind the cessna 206. The dakota proceeded to cut off the cessna 206. The dakota told the cessna 206 over the radio, 'I am inside you on downwind, and lower than you, so I am going to land in front of you.' the cessna 206 replied, 'I am #1 for landing, I am landing first.' the cessna 206 clearly had the right-of-way from our viewpoint. The dakota turned base in front of the cessna 206 and landed ahead of the cessna 206. The guy in the cessna 206 was very upset, telling the dakota they would talk on the ground. Both airplanes and us landed without further trouble. The person in the piper dakota was clearly at fault in both sits.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: C172 INSTRUCTOR AND STUDENT HAD LESS THAN LEGAL SEPARATION WITH A PA28 AT AN UNCTLED ARPT TFC PATTERN.
Narrative: MY STUDENT AND I WERE ON A LEFT DOWNWIND FOR THE RWY. WE HAD HEARD A CESSNA 206 CALL L UPWIND FOR THE RWY. OUT OF NOWHERE, A PIPER DAKOTA FLEW RIGHT BELOW US ON A XWIND. THE PLTS RADIOED AND SAID HE WOULD FOLLOW US IN. AS WE TURNED BASE LEG, I LOOKED OVER AND THE DAKOTA WAS TURNING INTO US, PROBABLY 500 FT OR LESS FROM US. THE DAKOTA THEN QUESTIONED US, IMPLYING WE WERE AT FAULT. WE TURNED FINAL AS THE DAKOTA FLEW RIGHT UNDERNEATH US. HE ASKED IF WE WERE ON FINAL. I STATED 'WE WERE TRYING TO FLY A FINAL, IF HE WOULD NOT CUT US OFF.' THE DAKOTA EXECUTED A GAR ON SHORT FINAL. WE PROCEEDED TO DO A TOUCH-AND-GO. AFTER WE TOOK OF AGAIN, THE CESSNA 206 HAD CALLED MIDFIELD DOWNWIND. WE WATCHED THE DAKOTA TURN DOWNWIND BEHIND THE CESSNA 206. THE DAKOTA PROCEEDED TO CUT OFF THE CESSNA 206. THE DAKOTA TOLD THE CESSNA 206 OVER THE RADIO, 'I AM INSIDE YOU ON DOWNWIND, AND LOWER THAN YOU, SO I AM GOING TO LAND IN FRONT OF YOU.' THE CESSNA 206 REPLIED, 'I AM #1 FOR LNDG, I AM LNDG FIRST.' THE CESSNA 206 CLRLY HAD THE RIGHT-OF-WAY FROM OUR VIEWPOINT. THE DAKOTA TURNED BASE IN FRONT OF THE CESSNA 206 AND LANDED AHEAD OF THE CESSNA 206. THE GUY IN THE CESSNA 206 WAS VERY UPSET, TELLING THE DAKOTA THEY WOULD TALK ON THE GND. BOTH AIRPLANES AND US LANDED WITHOUT FURTHER TROUBLE. THE PERSON IN THE PIPER DAKOTA WAS CLRLY AT FAULT IN BOTH SITS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.