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PA28 pilots were unsure whether they penetrated tfr airspace. They also report the FAA duats system is unreliable.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 543448 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200204 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ewr.airport |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl single value : 7500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
| Operator | general aviation : personal |
| Make Model Name | PA-28 Cherokee Arrow IV |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Flight Plan | None |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | other |
| Function | other personnel other |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 1100 flight time type : 1000 |
| ASRS Report | 543448 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | other |
| Function | flight crew : single pilot |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance FAA Airspace Structure |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were on a flight from ilg to hfd. I filed my IFR flight plan through duats. When we requested a clearance from ilg ground, we were told there was nothing in the system. Rather than be delayed, we elected to proceed VFR back to hfd. We were receiving VFR radar advisories throughout our trip north. I was acting as safety pilot for the other pilot flying under the hood. We approached the new york city area and we were aware of the tfr around ground zero. Because of the way the sun was shining, I did not realize how close we had gotten to nyc. I don't believe we actually went through the tfr, but we were closer than I would have wanted. Because the tfr is not charted, it was difficult to determine just how much we missed it by. We were not given any warnings from the approach controller that we were going to enter the tfr. Since we had not expected to fly VFR, we were not as prepared as we should have been to fly in this area. IFR flight plans filed by duats have not been available to me numerous times, even though I get a confirmation message when I file it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PA28 PLTS WERE UNSURE WHETHER THEY PENETRATED TFR AIRSPACE. THEY ALSO RPT THE FAA DUATS SYS IS UNRELIABLE.
Narrative: WE WERE ON A FLT FROM ILG TO HFD. I FILED MY IFR FLT PLAN THROUGH DUATS. WHEN WE REQUESTED A CLRNC FROM ILG GND, WE WERE TOLD THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE SYS. RATHER THAN BE DELAYED, WE ELECTED TO PROCEED VFR BACK TO HFD. WE WERE RECEIVING VFR RADAR ADVISORIES THROUGHOUT OUR TRIP N. I WAS ACTING AS SAFETY PLT FOR THE OTHER PLT FLYING UNDER THE HOOD. WE APCHED THE NEW YORK CITY AREA AND WE WERE AWARE OF THE TFR AROUND GND ZERO. BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE SUN WAS SHINING, I DID NOT REALIZE HOW CLOSE WE HAD GOTTEN TO NYC. I DON'T BELIEVE WE ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH THE TFR, BUT WE WERE CLOSER THAN I WOULD HAVE WANTED. BECAUSE THE TFR IS NOT CHARTED, IT WAS DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE JUST HOW MUCH WE MISSED IT BY. WE WERE NOT GIVEN ANY WARNINGS FROM THE APCH CTLR THAT WE WERE GOING TO ENTER THE TFR. SINCE WE HAD NOT EXPECTED TO FLY VFR, WE WERE NOT AS PREPARED AS WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO FLY IN THIS AREA. IFR FLT PLANS FILED BY DUATS HAVE NOT BEEN AVAILABLE TO ME NUMEROUS TIMES, EVEN THOUGH I GET A CONFIRMATION MESSAGE WHEN I FILE IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.