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A B777 first officer questions the PIC and the company as to whether a surface wind of 2 KTS is considered 'calm' as tower reported, or is it a tailwind that requires the use of maximum thrust for takeoff at sbgl, first officer?
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 534780 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200112 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : sbgl.airport |
| State Reference | FO |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B777 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : takeoff roll |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 534780 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : company policies other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Weather Flight Crew Human Performance Environmental Factor ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
I would like to know the legality of tailwind for takeoff. Specifically, we were cleared for takeoff by tower and they said 'wind is calm, 250 degrees at 2 KTS.' since we were taking off on runway 10, I said that I thought we needed to go maximum power FORTO2. The captain stated that he did not think so. I said that 'I do not think it is a safety issue, that we need to go maximum for legality purposes.' the captain stated that 'for legality purposes, it is calm.' I would like a clarification on this. Is 2 KTS of wind considered calm? I cannot find anything in the B777 manual or part 1 that helps me with this. Also, I have never heard a tower say the winds in this manner. Is this ICAO standard or something made up? Finally, I want to emphasize that at no time did I think we were doing something dangerous, but I simply want to know what the legal answer is on this.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B777 FO QUESTIONS THE PIC AND THE COMPANY AS TO WHETHER A SURFACE WIND OF 2 KTS IS CONSIDERED 'CALM' AS TWR RPTED, OR IS IT A TAILWIND THAT REQUIRES THE USE OF MAX THRUST FOR TKOF AT SBGL, FO?
Narrative: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE LEGALITY OF TAILWIND FOR TKOF. SPECIFICALLY, WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF BY TWR AND THEY SAID 'WIND IS CALM, 250 DEGS AT 2 KTS.' SINCE WE WERE TAKING OFF ON RWY 10, I SAID THAT I THOUGHT WE NEEDED TO GO MAX PWR FORTO2. THE CAPT STATED THAT HE DID NOT THINK SO. I SAID THAT 'I DO NOT THINK IT IS A SAFETY ISSUE, THAT WE NEED TO GO MAX FOR LEGALITY PURPOSES.' THE CAPT STATED THAT 'FOR LEGALITY PURPOSES, IT IS CALM.' I WOULD LIKE A CLARIFICATION ON THIS. IS 2 KTS OF WIND CONSIDERED CALM? I CANNOT FIND ANYTHING IN THE B777 MANUAL OR PART 1 THAT HELPS ME WITH THIS. ALSO, I HAVE NEVER HEARD A TWR SAY THE WINDS IN THIS MANNER. IS THIS ICAO STANDARD OR SOMETHING MADE UP? FINALLY, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT AT NO TIME DID I THINK WE WERE DOING SOMETHING DANGEROUS, BUT I SIMPLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE LEGAL ANSWER IS ON THIS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.