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L30 controller questions air carrier flight crew when observed descending below expected altitude on new ksino STAR into las.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 531393 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200111 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : napse |
| State Reference | NV |
| Altitude | msl single value : 7500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : l30.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | A320 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival star : ksino 1 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 4500 |
| ASRS Report | 531393 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued alert |
| Consequence | faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 30000 vertical : 500 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure Chart Or Publication |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Inter Facility Coordination Failure |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : zla.artcc |
| Chart | star : ksino |
Narrative:
ZLA cleared us to descend via the ksino one into las. No runway assigned, ATIS advising landing runway 1L/right and runway 25L. Since STAR states 'if no runway assigned, proceed runway 25L,' passing napse intersection, about 7500 ft on 225 degrees, las approach assigned heading about 250 degrees, 'climb 8000 ft now!' traffic was pointed out about 10 O'clock position, 7000 ft, about 5 mi. No conflict at that time. ATC said we should have been proceeding for runway 1L, which would have restr us to 8000 ft. We said no runway had been assigned. Las approach asked aircraft behind us what their clearance was and they replied the same as ours, 'just descend via the ksino 1.' I called TRACON on the ground. They said the stars were new and they were still getting used to them. I asked who should have assigned the runway, and they replied 'lax center was giving it now.' there was no real conflict since las approach saw the problem early, but there was potential for separation to be reduced further.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: L30 CTLR QUESTIONS ACR FLC WHEN OBSERVED DSNDING BELOW EXPECTED ALT ON NEW KSINO STAR INTO LAS.
Narrative: ZLA CLRED US TO DSND VIA THE KSINO ONE INTO LAS. NO RWY ASSIGNED, ATIS ADVISING LNDG RWY 1L/R AND RWY 25L. SINCE STAR STATES 'IF NO RWY ASSIGNED, PROCEED RWY 25L,' PASSING NAPSE INTXN, ABOUT 7500 FT ON 225 DEGS, LAS APCH ASSIGNED HDG ABOUT 250 DEGS, 'CLB 8000 FT NOW!' TFC WAS POINTED OUT ABOUT 10 O'CLOCK POS, 7000 FT, ABOUT 5 MI. NO CONFLICT AT THAT TIME. ATC SAID WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROCEEDING FOR RWY 1L, WHICH WOULD HAVE RESTR US TO 8000 FT. WE SAID NO RWY HAD BEEN ASSIGNED. LAS APCH ASKED ACFT BEHIND US WHAT THEIR CLRNC WAS AND THEY REPLIED THE SAME AS OURS, 'JUST DSND VIA THE KSINO 1.' I CALLED TRACON ON THE GND. THEY SAID THE STARS WERE NEW AND THEY WERE STILL GETTING USED TO THEM. I ASKED WHO SHOULD HAVE ASSIGNED THE RWY, AND THEY REPLIED 'LAX CTR WAS GIVING IT NOW.' THERE WAS NO REAL CONFLICT SINCE LAS APCH SAW THE PROB EARLY, BUT THERE WAS POTENTIAL FOR SEPARATION TO BE REDUCED FURTHER.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.