Narrative:

Captain less than 1 yr in type, first officer 2 yrs in type. Captain said he hadn't been to lax in approximately 10 yrs. First officer had been flying trip all month. Engine start uneventful. Taxi instructions were to taxi to runway 25R via taxiway B from ramp. Taxi up to taxiway F was uneventful. During taxi, first officer switched to tower frequency 120.95, as per taxiway sign instructions. (Note, at lax, during taxi to runway 25L it is understood that all aircraft will hold short of taxiway F until told otherwise by tower controller.) there is a taxiway sign stating this just prior to the intersection of txwys B and F. Approaching taxiway F, tower controller cleared aircraft to 'taxi full length, runway 25R.' I repeated back the clearance as read. As I had been flying this trip all month, I was familiar with this terminology. During the time between taxiway F and the end of taxiway B, I was heads down finishing up the before takeoff checklist. Approaching the hold short line for runway 25R, I glanced up and saw we were taxiing like we were not going to hold short of the hold short line. In a short period of time, 1 or 2 seconds, I tried to recall the tower controller's clearance. I came to the conclusion that we probably hadn't been cleared position and hold on runway 25R. My next decision was to ask the captain, 'are we cleared position and hold,' he delayed a second and said, 'I thought so.' he then abruptly applied wheel brakes and came to an immediately stop. Unfortunately, we had passed the hold short line for runway 25R, by a few feet. We were definitely short of the runway. I then proceeded to call the tower controller and query him as to whether we were cleared position and hold on runway 25R. I don't recall his reply, but it definitely was a negative one. Something to the effect, 'yeah, I saw you down there and wondered what you were doing...' there was another aircraft cleared to land on runway 25R and the tower controller sent the aircraft around. He seemed to be about 2 or 3 mi out. After aircraft went around, we were sitting on the taxiway, wondering what to do. We queried the controller for instructions and got none. I do not recall his eventual reply, but it was something to the effect that 'we were cleared for takeoff runway 25R.' the remainder of the flight was uneventful. Recommendations: since the captain hadn't been to lax in quite a while, I should have thoroughly briefed him on the runway 25R procedure. Coming into lax, I had briefed him on what I thought were different procedures for lax, but I didn't remember to brief him on the taxi out. As always, listen up on the frequency and repeat back all instructions not only to the controller, but also to the other flight deck crewmembers. After thinking about the clearance, I tried to come up with a better verbal clearance from the tower controller. The captain had told me he thought the clearance was, 'taxi full length, position and hold runway 25R,' maybe a better one for holding short would be, 'taxi full length, hold short runway 25R.' this would be instead of 'taxi full length runway 25R,' with the implied hold short of runway 25R. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the actual phraseology for this operation is -- taxi full length, hold short of runway 25R, as provided by a tower specialist.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B767 FLC ARE UNSURE OF CLRNC AND QUESTION LAX GND CTL'S PHRASEOLOGY AS ANOTHER ACFT IS ISSUED A GAR.

Narrative: CAPT LESS THAN 1 YR IN TYPE, FO 2 YRS IN TYPE. CAPT SAID HE HADN'T BEEN TO LAX IN APPROX 10 YRS. FO HAD BEEN FLYING TRIP ALL MONTH. ENG START UNEVENTFUL. TAXI INSTRUCTIONS WERE TO TAXI TO RWY 25R VIA TXWY B FROM RAMP. TAXI UP TO TXWY F WAS UNEVENTFUL. DURING TAXI, FO SWITCHED TO TWR FREQ 120.95, AS PER TXWY SIGN INSTRUCTIONS. (NOTE, AT LAX, DURING TAXI TO RWY 25L IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT ALL ACFT WILL HOLD SHORT OF TXWY F UNTIL TOLD OTHERWISE BY TWR CTLR.) THERE IS A TXWY SIGN STATING THIS JUST PRIOR TO THE INTXN OF TXWYS B AND F. APCHING TXWY F, TWR CTLR CLRED ACFT TO 'TAXI FULL LENGTH, RWY 25R.' I REPEATED BACK THE CLRNC AS READ. AS I HAD BEEN FLYING THIS TRIP ALL MONTH, I WAS FAMILIAR WITH THIS TERMINOLOGY. DURING THE TIME BTWN TXWY F AND THE END OF TXWY B, I WAS HEADS DOWN FINISHING UP THE BEFORE TKOF CHKLIST. APCHING THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 25R, I GLANCED UP AND SAW WE WERE TAXIING LIKE WE WERE NOT GOING TO HOLD SHORT OF THE HOLD SHORT LINE. IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, 1 OR 2 SECONDS, I TRIED TO RECALL THE TWR CTLR'S CLRNC. I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE PROBABLY HADN'T BEEN CLRED POS AND HOLD ON RWY 25R. MY NEXT DECISION WAS TO ASK THE CAPT, 'ARE WE CLRED POS AND HOLD,' HE DELAYED A SECOND AND SAID, 'I THOUGHT SO.' HE THEN ABRUPTLY APPLIED WHEEL BRAKES AND CAME TO AN IMMEDIATELY STOP. UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAD PASSED THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 25R, BY A FEW FEET. WE WERE DEFINITELY SHORT OF THE RWY. I THEN PROCEEDED TO CALL THE TWR CTLR AND QUERY HIM AS TO WHETHER WE WERE CLRED POS AND HOLD ON RWY 25R. I DON'T RECALL HIS REPLY, BUT IT DEFINITELY WAS A NEGATIVE ONE. SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT, 'YEAH, I SAW YOU DOWN THERE AND WONDERED WHAT YOU WERE DOING...' THERE WAS ANOTHER ACFT CLRED TO LAND ON RWY 25R AND THE TWR CTLR SENT THE ACFT AROUND. HE SEEMED TO BE ABOUT 2 OR 3 MI OUT. AFTER ACFT WENT AROUND, WE WERE SITTING ON THE TXWY, WONDERING WHAT TO DO. WE QUERIED THE CTLR FOR INSTRUCTIONS AND GOT NONE. I DO NOT RECALL HIS EVENTUAL REPLY, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT 'WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF RWY 25R.' THE REMAINDER OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL. RECOMMENDATIONS: SINCE THE CAPT HADN'T BEEN TO LAX IN QUITE A WHILE, I SHOULD HAVE THOROUGHLY BRIEFED HIM ON THE RWY 25R PROC. COMING INTO LAX, I HAD BRIEFED HIM ON WHAT I THOUGHT WERE DIFFERENT PROCS FOR LAX, BUT I DIDN'T REMEMBER TO BRIEF HIM ON THE TAXI OUT. AS ALWAYS, LISTEN UP ON THE FREQ AND REPEAT BACK ALL INSTRUCTIONS NOT ONLY TO THE CTLR, BUT ALSO TO THE OTHER FLT DECK CREWMEMBERS. AFTER THINKING ABOUT THE CLRNC, I TRIED TO COME UP WITH A BETTER VERBAL CLRNC FROM THE TWR CTLR. THE CAPT HAD TOLD ME HE THOUGHT THE CLRNC WAS, 'TAXI FULL LENGTH, POS AND HOLD RWY 25R,' MAYBE A BETTER ONE FOR HOLDING SHORT WOULD BE, 'TAXI FULL LENGTH, HOLD SHORT RWY 25R.' THIS WOULD BE INSTEAD OF 'TAXI FULL LENGTH RWY 25R,' WITH THE IMPLIED HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25R. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE ACTUAL PHRASEOLOGY FOR THIS OP IS -- TAXI FULL LENGTH, HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25R, AS PROVIDED BY A TWR SPECIALIST.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.