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Air carrier turboprop questions sct clearance to 'fly formation' with heavy jet on adjoining parallel approach course.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 514147 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200106 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Light Transport |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other vortac |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | A320 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 9900 flight time type : 3300 |
| ASRS Report | 514147 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : sct.tracon |
Narrative:
Lax ATIS XA50 240 degrees 10 mi, 10 SM clear, 18/13 altimeter 29.94 simultaneous ILS approachs in progress to runways 24R and 25L, and parallel localizer approachs are in progress between lax and hhr airports. Radar vectors to visual runway 25R lax. Socal told us to report an airbus on visual runway 25L lax in sight. Called traffic in sight. Socal cleared us a visual approach to runway 25R...pull up to airbus, do not pass.' we flew staggered approach to the airbus. Socal especially on south complex 125.9 seems to use this nonstandard back-door clearance for formation flight to increase capacity. It is a clearance for formation without the consent of both PIC's or briefings, clrncs if both aircraft are forced to go around, wake turbulence separation, etc.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR TURBOPROP QUESTIONS SCT CLRNC TO 'FLY FORMATION' WITH HVY JET ON ADJOINING PARALLEL APCH COURSE.
Narrative: LAX ATIS XA50 240 DEGS 10 MI, 10 SM CLR, 18/13 ALTIMETER 29.94 SIMULTANEOUS ILS APCHS IN PROGRESS TO RWYS 24R AND 25L, AND PARALLEL LOC APCHS ARE IN PROGRESS BTWN LAX AND HHR ARPTS. RADAR VECTORS TO VISUAL RWY 25R LAX. SOCAL TOLD US TO RPT AN AIRBUS ON VISUAL RWY 25L LAX IN SIGHT. CALLED TFC IN SIGHT. SOCAL CLRED US A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25R...PULL UP TO AIRBUS, DO NOT PASS.' WE FLEW STAGGERED APCH TO THE AIRBUS. SOCAL ESPECIALLY ON S COMPLEX 125.9 SEEMS TO USE THIS NONSTANDARD BACK-DOOR CLRNC FOR FORMATION FLT TO INCREASE CAPACITY. IT IS A CLRNC FOR FORMATION WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF BOTH PIC'S OR BRIEFINGS, CLRNCS IF BOTH ACFT ARE FORCED TO GO AROUND, WAKE TURB SEPARATION, ETC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.