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B-737 crew inbound to cvg receive a descent and a crossing restriction late from a ZID ARTCC radar controller.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 500372 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200012 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| State Reference | IN |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 23000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zid.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : vacating altitude |
| Route In Use | arrival star : mosey |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 90 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 2100 |
| ASRS Report | 500372 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : separated traffic |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
On the mosey arrival for cvg airport, fl 230, approximately 20 mi west of abb VOR. We had been told to maintain maximum forward speed for spacing to cvg, and were doing approximately 335 KIAS. No call to 'anticipate crossing...' had been made from indy center. 20 mi west of abb, indy center directs us to cross sargo intersection (9 mi east off abb) at 11000 ft and maintain that altitude. By the time we received the call/replied, we were already way behind a 3:1 descent profile. A new first officer was flying this leg and started a 1000-1500 FPM descent. I told him we really needed to get down, and directed a maximum descent. As we were passing 13000 ft, we rapidly approached an ovsct layer, and the first officer slowed towards 280 KIAS (turbulence penetration airspeed). This effectively slowed our descent to almost nothing. I re-initiated a greater descent. We crossed sargo intersection at approximately 11600 ft, and were at 11000 ft at 11 DME (2 mi past sargo). No known conflict with other traffic. Also, in the middle of this whole scenario, we were given a frequency change from indy center to cvg approach. Indy center is notorious for last min crossing restrictions. Whether on the mosey, tarne or cince arrs, they issue extremely late instructions, and usually also give a speed reduction/restriction, as well. This makes compliance virtually impossible, and after results in a startling descent for the passengers.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B-737 CREW INBOUND TO CVG RECEIVE A DSCNT AND A XING RESTRICTION LATE FROM A ZID ARTCC RADAR CTLR.
Narrative: ON THE MOSEY ARR FOR CVG ARPT, FL 230, APPROX 20 MI W OF ABB VOR. WE HAD BEEN TOLD TO MAINTAIN MAX FORWARD SPEED FOR SPACING TO CVG, AND WERE DOING APPROX 335 KIAS. NO CALL TO 'ANTICIPATE XING...' HAD BEEN MADE FROM INDY CENTER. 20 MI W OF ABB, INDY CENTER DIRECTS US TO CROSS SARGO INTXN (9 MI E OFF ABB) AT 11000 FT AND MAINTAIN THAT ALT. BY THE TIME WE RECEIVED THE CALL/REPLIED, WE WERE ALREADY WAY BEHIND A 3:1 DSCNT PROFILE. A NEW FO WAS FLYING THIS LEG AND STARTED A 1000-1500 FPM DSCNT. I TOLD HIM WE REALLY NEEDED TO GET DOWN, AND DIRECTED A MAX DSCNT. AS WE WERE PASSING 13000 FT, WE RAPIDLY APCHED AN OVSCT LAYER, AND THE FO SLOWED TOWARDS 280 KIAS (TURBULENCE PENETRATION AIRSPEED). THIS EFFECTIVELY SLOWED OUR DSCNT TO ALMOST NOTHING. I RE-INITIATED A GREATER DSCNT. WE CROSSED SARGO INTXN AT APPROX 11600 FT, AND WERE AT 11000 FT AT 11 DME (2 MI PAST SARGO). NO KNOWN CONFLICT WITH OTHER TFC. ALSO, IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS WHOLE SCENARIO, WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE FROM INDY CENTER TO CVG APCH. INDY CENTER IS NOTORIOUS FOR LAST MIN XING RESTRICTIONS. WHETHER ON THE MOSEY, TARNE OR CINCE ARRS, THEY ISSUE EXTREMELY LATE INSTRUCTIONS, AND USUALLY ALSO GIVE A SPEED REDUCTION/RESTRICTION, AS WELL. THIS MAKES COMPLIANCE VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE, AND AFTER RESULTS IN A STARTLING DSCNT FOR THE PAXS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.