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On vectors to final, due to wake turbulence, the flight crew requested more separation than ATC had allowed, a dialog somewhat ensued.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 487889 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200010 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : atl.airport |
| State Reference | GA |
| Altitude | msl single value : 3500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : atl.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-88 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 27l |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : atl.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 27l |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 155 flight time total : 7500 flight time type : 4000 |
| ASRS Report | 487889 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : wake turbulence non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Aircraft Airport |
| Primary Problem | Airport |
Narrative:
We were given a vector with instructions to intercept runway 27L localizer. Also given 160 KIAS speed. Approach asked if we saw B767 heavy ahead at 11 O'clock position at 4 mi. We said yes. ATC said 'follow heavy, cleared visual, caution wake turbulence 4 mi in-trail.' we SID we were slowing to 150 KTS for separation. Approach said 'negative, we need 160 KTS, you have 4 1/2 mi in-trail.' we stated we needed separation from heavy. ATC then told us to 'south-turn' left if we really needed it. ATC then chastised us to other aircraft on final as to why we couldn't follow the heavy. Remarks: ATC did not give the option of reduced separation, it was forced on us, then we were pressured when we requested separation. Reduced wake vortice separation is too often the norm at atl compromising safety. Safety is taking a back seat from pressure to push the ATC system beyond it's current limitations.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ON VECTORS TO FINAL, DUE TO WAKE TURB, THE FLC REQUESTED MORE SEPARATION THAN ATC HAD ALLOWED, A DIALOG SOMEWHAT ENSUED.
Narrative: WE WERE GIVEN A VECTOR WITH INSTRUCTIONS TO INTERCEPT RWY 27L LOC. ALSO GIVEN 160 KIAS SPD. APCH ASKED IF WE SAW B767 HVY AHEAD AT 11 O'CLOCK POS AT 4 MI. WE SAID YES. ATC SAID 'FOLLOW HVY, CLRED VISUAL, CAUTION WAKE TURB 4 MI IN-TRAIL.' WE SID WE WERE SLOWING TO 150 KTS FOR SEPARATION. APCH SAID 'NEGATIVE, WE NEED 160 KTS, YOU HAVE 4 1/2 MI IN-TRAIL.' WE STATED WE NEEDED SEPARATION FROM HVY. ATC THEN TOLD US TO 'S-TURN' L IF WE REALLY NEEDED IT. ATC THEN CHASTISED US TO OTHER ACFT ON FINAL AS TO WHY WE COULDN'T FOLLOW THE HVY. REMARKS: ATC DID NOT GIVE THE OPTION OF REDUCED SEPARATION, IT WAS FORCED ON US, THEN WE WERE PRESSURED WHEN WE REQUESTED SEPARATION. REDUCED WAKE VORTICE SEPARATION IS TOO OFTEN THE NORM AT ATL COMPROMISING SAFETY. SAFETY IS TAKING A BACK SEAT FROM PRESSURE TO PUSH THE ATC SYS BEYOND IT'S CURRENT LIMITATIONS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.