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A B737-300 flight crew fails to start descent in time to cross the VOR at FL280 over hec, ca.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 483940 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200008 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | navaid : hec.vor |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 28000 msl bound upper : 31000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
| Route In Use | enroute airway : j6.airway |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 6100 flight time type : 3100 |
| ASRS Report | 483940 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
| ASRS Report | 483941 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory none taken : detected after the fact |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Company Aircraft Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I was flying in cruise at 31000 ft MSL. At approximately 65 mi from hec we were given a crossing restr over hec of 28000 ft MSL. I programmed the FMC for hec at 28000 ft and the captain put 28000 ft in the altitude alert window. The FMC said about 50 mi to top of descent. A radio frequency change was given and done. The captain and I started discussing a fuel loading problem on a previous flight. The next call we got was from ZLA saying 'did the last controller give you a crossing restr?' we both immediately realized our position over hec and started an immediate descent. The captain responded with the restr. The answer was 'you just passed hec.' the captain volunteered to take an immediate turn out or new altitude. No response was received and no mention of it came again from ZLA. Obviously, the captain and I were involved in our fuel discussion and missed the descent point. The FMC gives no warning about a missed descent point when the altitude is in the altitude alert window. Additionally, VNAV operation is prohibited at our airline so the autoplt cannot initiate the descent when it is missed. Supplemental information from acn 483941: this was the last leg of an 11+ hour duty day and I didn't notice that the first officer did not begin descent. I am flying with new first officer's and must watch their every action more closely.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737-300 FLC FAILS TO START DSCNT IN TIME TO CROSS THE VOR AT FL280 OVER HEC, CA.
Narrative: I WAS FLYING IN CRUISE AT 31000 FT MSL. AT APPROX 65 MI FROM HEC WE WERE GIVEN A XING RESTR OVER HEC OF 28000 FT MSL. I PROGRAMMED THE FMC FOR HEC AT 28000 FT AND THE CAPT PUT 28000 FT IN THE ALT ALERT WINDOW. THE FMC SAID ABOUT 50 MI TO TOP OF DSCNT. A RADIO FREQ CHANGE WAS GIVEN AND DONE. THE CAPTAIN AND I STARTED DISCUSSING A FUEL LOADING PROB ON A PREVIOUS FLT. THE NEXT CALL WE GOT WAS FROM ZLA SAYING 'DID THE LAST CTLR GIVE YOU A XING RESTR?' WE BOTH IMMEDIATELY REALIZED OUR POS OVER HEC AND STARTED AN IMMEDIATE DSCNT. THE CAPT RESPONDED WITH THE RESTR. THE ANSWER WAS 'YOU JUST PASSED HEC.' THE CAPT VOLUNTEERED TO TAKE AN IMMEDIATE TURN OUT OR NEW ALT. NO RESPONSE WAS RECEIVED AND NO MENTION OF IT CAME AGAIN FROM ZLA. OBVIOUSLY, THE CAPTAIN AND I WERE INVOLVED IN OUR FUEL DISCUSSION AND MISSED THE DSCNT POINT. THE FMC GIVES NO WARNING ABOUT A MISSED DSCNT POINT WHEN THE ALT IS IN THE ALT ALERT WINDOW. ADDITIONALLY, VNAV OP IS PROHIBITED AT OUR AIRLINE SO THE AUTOPLT CANNOT INITIATE THE DSCNT WHEN IT IS MISSED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 483941: THIS WAS THE LAST LEG OF AN 11+ HR DUTY DAY AND I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT THE FO DID NOT BEGIN DSCNT. I AM FLYING WITH NEW FO'S AND MUST WATCH THEIR EVERY ACTION MORE CLOSELY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.