<< >> NASA ASRS Report 453269, October 1999

B727 flight crew calls traffic in sight and is advised it is 1 pt 5 mi ahead and it is made clear that he must provide spacing.

Attributes
ACN	453269
Time
Date	199910
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : dtw.airport
State Reference	MI
Altitude	msl single value : 3000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : dtw.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other other vortac
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual arrival : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tower : dtw.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : instrument
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 1100
ASRS Report	453269
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Miss Distance	horizontal : 9000
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Error

Narrative:

We were vectored for a visual approach for runway 3R in dtw. At 7 mi south of airport on heading of 060 degrees, we were asked if we had traffic at 1200 ft. We had previously reported airport in sight and were given vector to pick up final at 150 KTS. We did have aircraft in sight, 12 O'clock position, close in. ATC said traffic 12 O'clock position, 1 1/2 mi, cleared visual approach runway 3R dtw, etc. I find it unsafe to vector aircraft to within 1 1/2 mi on final. Then when you report traffic, they clear you and expect you to maintain separation. We had to do s-turns on final to maintain separation. When I called ATC with my concern of an unsafe distance on vector to final, they said it was my fault/responsibility to maintain safe/adequate separation as I had called the traffic in sight. Solution: not have ATC vector so close on final. Also lesson learned. Never call traffic on approach -- just the airport. Also, ask for minimum separation of 3 mi.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B727 FLC CALLS TFC IN SIGHT AND IS ADVISED IT IS 1 PT 5 MI AHEAD AND IT IS MADE CLR THAT HE MUST PROVIDE SPACING.

Narrative: WE WERE VECTORED FOR A VISUAL APCH FOR RWY 3R IN DTW. AT 7 MI S OF ARPT ON HDG OF 060 DEGS, WE WERE ASKED IF WE HAD TFC AT 1200 FT. WE HAD PREVIOUSLY RPTED ARPT IN SIGHT AND WERE GIVEN VECTOR TO PICK UP FINAL AT 150 KTS. WE DID HAVE ACFT IN SIGHT, 12 O'CLOCK POS, CLOSE IN. ATC SAID TFC 12 O'CLOCK POS, 1 1/2 MI, CLRED VISUAL APCH RWY 3R DTW, ETC. I FIND IT UNSAFE TO VECTOR ACFT TO WITHIN 1 1/2 MI ON FINAL. THEN WHEN YOU RPT TFC, THEY CLR YOU AND EXPECT YOU TO MAINTAIN SEPARATION. WE HAD TO DO S-TURNS ON FINAL TO MAINTAIN SEPARATION. WHEN I CALLED ATC WITH MY CONCERN OF AN UNSAFE DISTANCE ON VECTOR TO FINAL, THEY SAID IT WAS MY FAULT/RESPONSIBILITY TO MAINTAIN SAFE/ADEQUATE SEPARATION AS I HAD CALLED THE TFC IN SIGHT. SOLUTION: NOT HAVE ATC VECTOR SO CLOSE ON FINAL. ALSO LESSON LEARNED. NEVER CALL TFC ON APCH -- JUST THE ARPT. ALSO, ASK FOR MINIMUM SEPARATION OF 3 MI.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.