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An air carrier captain experienced an RA during the civet arrival into lax.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 451770 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199910 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 10000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : vacating altitude |
| Route In Use | arrival star : civet 4 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Make Model Name | Small Aircraft |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Flight Plan | VFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : multi engine |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 12001 flight time type : 800 |
| ASRS Report | 451770 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 3000 vertical : 800 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure Chart Or Publication |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | staffing : sct.tracon |
| Airspace Structure | class b : lax.b |
| Chart | star : civet 4 |
Narrative:
During civet arrival at lax, we were given several step-downs, at or above altitude requirements. Upon crossing bremr at 12000 ft, ATC told us to expedite descent to 10000 ft for VFR traffic at 11500 ft. At that time we saw traffic on TCASII TA 600 ft below in level flight. We stopped descent. Then TCASII commanded RA a rapid descent. With no visual contact, we complied. Passing through 11000 ft, we saw traffic (VFR) 500-800 ft above and 1/2 mi left. Because of a previous ATC directive to slow and our delay in descending, we were high for the next crossing restr (arnes). This could not have been avoided. We were also unsure, since ATC had descended us to a hard altitude, if we were still legally on the arrival and, therefore, not required to make the crossing restr. After leveling at 10000 ft, approach cleared us for the visual. Lax is always a mess because ATC expects us to defy the laws of physics by issuing abrupt 50-70 KT speed reductions and expecting us to still comply with the arrival restrs.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR CAPT EXPERIENCED AN RA DURING THE CIVET ARR INTO LAX.
Narrative: DURING CIVET ARR AT LAX, WE WERE GIVEN SEVERAL STEP-DOWNS, AT OR ABOVE ALT REQUIREMENTS. UPON XING BREMR AT 12000 FT, ATC TOLD US TO EXPEDITE DSCNT TO 10000 FT FOR VFR TFC AT 11500 FT. AT THAT TIME WE SAW TFC ON TCASII TA 600 FT BELOW IN LEVEL FLT. WE STOPPED DSCNT. THEN TCASII COMMANDED RA A RAPID DSCNT. WITH NO VISUAL CONTACT, WE COMPLIED. PASSING THROUGH 11000 FT, WE SAW TFC (VFR) 500-800 FT ABOVE AND 1/2 MI L. BECAUSE OF A PREVIOUS ATC DIRECTIVE TO SLOW AND OUR DELAY IN DSNDING, WE WERE HIGH FOR THE NEXT XING RESTR (ARNES). THIS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN AVOIDED. WE WERE ALSO UNSURE, SINCE ATC HAD DSNDED US TO A HARD ALT, IF WE WERE STILL LEGALLY ON THE ARR AND, THEREFORE, NOT REQUIRED TO MAKE THE XING RESTR. AFTER LEVELING AT 10000 FT, APCH CLRED US FOR THE VISUAL. LAX IS ALWAYS A MESS BECAUSE ATC EXPECTS US TO DEFY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BY ISSUING ABRUPT 50-70 KT SPD REDUCTIONS AND EXPECTING US TO STILL COMPLY WITH THE ARR RESTRS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.