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A B757 flight crew received a TCASII RA from a heavy jet while maintaining visual separation near lax.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 449529 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199910 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 6000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | ground : position and hold |
| Route In Use | approach : circling approach other arrival other arrival star : mitts |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13500 flight time type : 1500 |
| ASRS Report | 449529 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Cleared inbound on mitts STAR to north complex at lax. Socal approach asked us that we had a heavy jet that would join the civet arrival to the south complex. We reported it in sight and we were told to maintain visual separation and given a lower altitude along the STAR. We passed by the heavy jet which was turning from a base leg to join the STAR and shortly thereafter, we received a TCASII RA for the heavy jet which was at our 8 O'clock position, high and descending. It was impossible to judge the range to the heavy visually (TCASII showed it to be less than 1 mi). We complied with the RA by descending below the prescribed altitude profile on the STAR. We advised socal approach that we had complied with the RA. The response was a disinterested 'you have him in sight, don't you?' an overshoot of the civet STAR by the other aircraft may have occurred leading to the TCASII RA. Visual separation at night is unsafe. But woe be to the pilot who does not accept it going into lax. The controllers will deny lower altitudes and approach clrncs to an aircraft not wishing to accept visual separation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B757 FLC RECEIVED A TCASII RA FROM A HVY JET WHILE MAINTAINING VISUAL SEPARATION NEAR LAX.
Narrative: CLRED INBOUND ON MITTS STAR TO N COMPLEX AT LAX. SOCAL APCH ASKED US THAT WE HAD A HVY JET THAT WOULD JOIN THE CIVET ARR TO THE S COMPLEX. WE RPTED IT IN SIGHT AND WE WERE TOLD TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION AND GIVEN A LOWER ALT ALONG THE STAR. WE PASSED BY THE HVY JET WHICH WAS TURNING FROM A BASE LEG TO JOIN THE STAR AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER, WE RECEIVED A TCASII RA FOR THE HVY JET WHICH WAS AT OUR 8 O'CLOCK POS, HIGH AND DSNDING. IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO JUDGE THE RANGE TO THE HVY VISUALLY (TCASII SHOWED IT TO BE LESS THAN 1 MI). WE COMPLIED WITH THE RA BY DSNDING BELOW THE PRESCRIBED ALT PROFILE ON THE STAR. WE ADVISED SOCAL APCH THAT WE HAD COMPLIED WITH THE RA. THE RESPONSE WAS A DISINTERESTED 'YOU HAVE HIM IN SIGHT, DON'T YOU?' AN OVERSHOOT OF THE CIVET STAR BY THE OTHER ACFT MAY HAVE OCCURRED LEADING TO THE TCASII RA. VISUAL SEPARATION AT NIGHT IS UNSAFE. BUT WOE BE TO THE PLT WHO DOES NOT ACCEPT IT GOING INTO LAX. THE CTLRS WILL DENY LOWER ALTS AND APCH CLRNCS TO AN ACFT NOT WISHING TO ACCEPT VISUAL SEPARATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.