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A B757 crew felt there was a lack of coordination between ZID and ZOB while on the mizar STAR into detroit metropolitan wayne county airport.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 427581 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199902 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | navaid : dxo.vor |
| State Reference | MI |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 13000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc artcc : zid.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
| Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change descent : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | arrival : on vectors arrival star : mizar |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : multi engine |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 1500 |
| ASRS Report | 427581 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : published procedure other anomaly |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Inter Facility Coordination Failure |
Narrative:
On the mizar 3 arrival to dtw we were continuously asked by ZID controllers to keep our speed up at 320 KTS or better. We were then handed over to ZOB whose only clearance to us was to 'cross mizar at 12000 ft at 210 KTS.' this clearance was given to us past the point of FMC normal descent path to cross mizar at 12000 ft and 250 KTS (the normal crossing altitude and speed) which even worsened the situation. We were still 9 mi from mizar at 320 KTS (previous speed restr) descending through 13000 ft to cross mizar at 12000 ft and 210 KTS (the only restr from ZOB thus far!). As we were going through 12900 ft, ZOB asked us to level off at 13000 ft and if we were at 250 KTS. We then leveled off and climbed back to 13000 ft, informing him of this fact and the fact that we had no 250 KT restr, but 210 KTS at mizar (still 9 mi away) and we would have had no problem in compliance with this (original) restr. We were than given delay/penalty vectors (270 degree heading then 180 degrees then back direct mizar) and continued the STAR uneventfully. Problems: 1) ZOB was very unprofessional in controling traffic flow. 2) lack of coordination between ZOB/ZID ctrs. One asks for best forward above 320 KTS. The other 'thinks' you are at 250 KTS but not asking you to slow to 250 KTS. 3) understandable clearance, the only clearance we had received was 'mizar at 12000 ft at 210 KTS' and even this one was late. 4) asking us to level off at an altitude which was not in our original clearance and we have already passed this altitude.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B757 CREW FELT THERE WAS A LACK OF COORD BTWN ZID AND ZOB WHILE ON THE MIZAR STAR INTO DETROIT METRO WAYNE COUNTY ARPT.
Narrative: ON THE MIZAR 3 ARR TO DTW WE WERE CONTINUOUSLY ASKED BY ZID CTLRS TO KEEP OUR SPD UP AT 320 KTS OR BETTER. WE WERE THEN HANDED OVER TO ZOB WHOSE ONLY CLRNC TO US WAS TO 'CROSS MIZAR AT 12000 FT AT 210 KTS.' THIS CLRNC WAS GIVEN TO US PAST THE POINT OF FMC NORMAL DSCNT PATH TO CROSS MIZAR AT 12000 FT AND 250 KTS (THE NORMAL XING ALT AND SPD) WHICH EVEN WORSENED THE SIT. WE WERE STILL 9 MI FROM MIZAR AT 320 KTS (PREVIOUS SPD RESTR) DSNDING THROUGH 13000 FT TO CROSS MIZAR AT 12000 FT AND 210 KTS (THE ONLY RESTR FROM ZOB THUS FAR!). AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH 12900 FT, ZOB ASKED US TO LEVEL OFF AT 13000 FT AND IF WE WERE AT 250 KTS. WE THEN LEVELED OFF AND CLBED BACK TO 13000 FT, INFORMING HIM OF THIS FACT AND THE FACT THAT WE HAD NO 250 KT RESTR, BUT 210 KTS AT MIZAR (STILL 9 MI AWAY) AND WE WOULD HAVE HAD NO PROB IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS (ORIGINAL) RESTR. WE WERE THAN GIVEN DELAY/PENALTY VECTORS (270 DEG HDG THEN 180 DEGS THEN BACK DIRECT MIZAR) AND CONTINUED THE STAR UNEVENTFULLY. PROBS: 1) ZOB WAS VERY UNPROFESSIONAL IN CTLING TFC FLOW. 2) LACK OF COORD BTWN ZOB/ZID CTRS. ONE ASKS FOR BEST FORWARD ABOVE 320 KTS. THE OTHER 'THINKS' YOU ARE AT 250 KTS BUT NOT ASKING YOU TO SLOW TO 250 KTS. 3) UNDERSTANDABLE CLRNC, THE ONLY CLRNC WE HAD RECEIVED WAS 'MIZAR AT 12000 FT AT 210 KTS' AND EVEN THIS ONE WAS LATE. 4) ASKING US TO LEVEL OFF AT AN ALT WHICH WAS NOT IN OUR ORIGINAL CLRNC AND WE HAVE ALREADY PASSED THIS ALT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.