Narrative:

On jan/xa/99, the captain and I were scheduled to fly 6 hours 5 mins. The trip was fwa-pit-fwa-pit-cmi. We actually flew 6 hours 33 mins. The additional time was due to bad WX and deicing. We got into cmi late and signed out at XX37Z. We went to the hotel and came back the next morning and signed in at XX20Z which gave us 8 hours 43 mins of rest. No big deal -- it could be reduced to that. The rest was scheduled for 9 hours 6 mins. Our last flight for the trip was scheduled for 1 hour 49 mins (cmi-pit). We actually flew 1 hour 40 mins. When we got to pit, our company needed us to fly a round trip to fwa. This was scheduled for 1 hour 19 mins out and 1 hour 2 mins back. This would put us over 9 hours scheduled in a 24 hour period. The company demanded that we go to fwa (mainly because the crew that was scheduled to do it was stuck in cak with a broken airplane). Dispatch spoke to the captain and the captain said that we weren't legal to go. I told the captain that there was no way we were legal to go. Captain told them again and dispatch went to a higher power, who used to be in the flight training department, and was in charge of training pilots. So he was supposed to be an expert on sits like ours. Dispatch said they spoke to company ground personnel and that he said we were legal to go, he hung up the phone and we went. It is my understanding that this was not 'legal' because when the scheduled flight time during any 24 hour period is less than 9 hours, the minimum hours of reduced rest is 8 hours. This is what we were originally scheduled for (although we were supposed to get 9 hours or rest -- which is considered normal rest). When the scheduled flight time is greater than or equal to 9 hours in a 24 hour period (this was our situation after the company tacked on a fwa round trip to our day) minimum reduced rest is 9 hours. We got 8 hours 43 mins of rest, so we were 17 mins of rest away from legally being able to accept this trip. We couldn't have even done the first leg of the fwa round trip -- it would have put us over 9 hours of scheduled flight time in a 24 hour period. The company was desperate for us to do this round trip because the flight to fwa was already 1 1/2 hours late. The company wants their completion factor to be the best in the industry, and they didn't want to lose passenger. They were willing to jeopardize their pilots' records (could get violated) for an illegal round trip to fwa. If we didn't go, the company very easily could have fired us. So we were in a very difficult situation. Another factor: the captain and I weren't exactly sure of the rules -- mainly because they're extremely confusing. In addition to the confusing rest rules, the captain and I didn't get lots of rest, so we were tired and we were not as sharp as we could have been (with more rest). Should a situation like this arise again, I'm going to call our poi at the ind FSDO and ask her if it is in fact legal to go. That will give the crew some leverage when speaking to the company. It may also raise some eyebrows at the FAA and they may keep a closer watch on our company to make sure they don't pull stunts like this again. I think the 'rest rules' need to be simplified and clarified. There are very few pilots I have met that really have a good handle on the rest requirements. It's just far too confusing. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated that he had since researched the regulations and come to the same conclusion of the analyst in that their flight schedule was in fact legal after the reduced scheduled interim rest period.

Google
 

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLC OF A SAAB SF340A BELIEVED THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT LENGTH OF REST PERIOD FOR AN ADDITIONAL SCHEDULED FLT. A COMPANY TRAINING OFFICER ADVISED DISPATCH THAT THE CREW WAS LEGAL TO FLY THE ADDITIONAL TRIP.

Narrative: ON JAN/XA/99, THE CAPT AND I WERE SCHEDULED TO FLY 6 HRS 5 MINS. THE TRIP WAS FWA-PIT-FWA-PIT-CMI. WE ACTUALLY FLEW 6 HRS 33 MINS. THE ADDITIONAL TIME WAS DUE TO BAD WX AND DEICING. WE GOT INTO CMI LATE AND SIGNED OUT AT XX37Z. WE WENT TO THE HOTEL AND CAME BACK THE NEXT MORNING AND SIGNED IN AT XX20Z WHICH GAVE US 8 HRS 43 MINS OF REST. NO BIG DEAL -- IT COULD BE REDUCED TO THAT. THE REST WAS SCHEDULED FOR 9 HRS 6 MINS. OUR LAST FLT FOR THE TRIP WAS SCHEDULED FOR 1 HR 49 MINS (CMI-PIT). WE ACTUALLY FLEW 1 HR 40 MINS. WHEN WE GOT TO PIT, OUR COMPANY NEEDED US TO FLY A ROUND TRIP TO FWA. THIS WAS SCHEDULED FOR 1 HR 19 MINS OUT AND 1 HR 2 MINS BACK. THIS WOULD PUT US OVER 9 HRS SCHEDULED IN A 24 HR PERIOD. THE COMPANY DEMANDED THAT WE GO TO FWA (MAINLY BECAUSE THE CREW THAT WAS SCHEDULED TO DO IT WAS STUCK IN CAK WITH A BROKEN AIRPLANE). DISPATCH SPOKE TO THE CAPT AND THE CAPT SAID THAT WE WEREN'T LEGAL TO GO. I TOLD THE CAPT THAT THERE WAS NO WAY WE WERE LEGAL TO GO. CAPT TOLD THEM AGAIN AND DISPATCH WENT TO A HIGHER PWR, WHO USED TO BE IN THE FLT TRAINING DEPT, AND WAS IN CHARGE OF TRAINING PLTS. SO HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXPERT ON SITS LIKE OURS. DISPATCH SAID THEY SPOKE TO CGP AND THAT HE SAID WE WERE LEGAL TO GO, HE HUNG UP THE PHONE AND WE WENT. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS WAS NOT 'LEGAL' BECAUSE WHEN THE SCHEDULED FLT TIME DURING ANY 24 HR PERIOD IS LESS THAN 9 HRS, THE MINIMUM HRS OF REDUCED REST IS 8 HRS. THIS IS WHAT WE WERE ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FOR (ALTHOUGH WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GET 9 HRS OR REST -- WHICH IS CONSIDERED NORMAL REST). WHEN THE SCHEDULED FLT TIME IS GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO 9 HRS IN A 24 HR PERIOD (THIS WAS OUR SIT AFTER THE COMPANY TACKED ON A FWA ROUND TRIP TO OUR DAY) MINIMUM REDUCED REST IS 9 HRS. WE GOT 8 HRS 43 MINS OF REST, SO WE WERE 17 MINS OF REST AWAY FROM LEGALLY BEING ABLE TO ACCEPT THIS TRIP. WE COULDN'T HAVE EVEN DONE THE FIRST LEG OF THE FWA ROUND TRIP -- IT WOULD HAVE PUT US OVER 9 HRS OF SCHEDULED FLT TIME IN A 24 HR PERIOD. THE COMPANY WAS DESPERATE FOR US TO DO THIS ROUND TRIP BECAUSE THE FLT TO FWA WAS ALREADY 1 1/2 HRS LATE. THE COMPANY WANTS THEIR COMPLETION FACTOR TO BE THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY, AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO LOSE PAX. THEY WERE WILLING TO JEOPARDIZE THEIR PLTS' RECORDS (COULD GET VIOLATED) FOR AN ILLEGAL ROUND TRIP TO FWA. IF WE DIDN'T GO, THE COMPANY VERY EASILY COULD HAVE FIRED US. SO WE WERE IN A VERY DIFFICULT SIT. ANOTHER FACTOR: THE CAPT AND I WEREN'T EXACTLY SURE OF THE RULES -- MAINLY BECAUSE THEY'RE EXTREMELY CONFUSING. IN ADDITION TO THE CONFUSING REST RULES, THE CAPT AND I DIDN'T GET LOTS OF REST, SO WE WERE TIRED AND WE WERE NOT AS SHARP AS WE COULD HAVE BEEN (WITH MORE REST). SHOULD A SIT LIKE THIS ARISE AGAIN, I'M GOING TO CALL OUR POI AT THE IND FSDO AND ASK HER IF IT IS IN FACT LEGAL TO GO. THAT WILL GIVE THE CREW SOME LEVERAGE WHEN SPEAKING TO THE COMPANY. IT MAY ALSO RAISE SOME EYEBROWS AT THE FAA AND THEY MAY KEEP A CLOSER WATCH ON OUR COMPANY TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T PULL STUNTS LIKE THIS AGAIN. I THINK THE 'REST RULES' NEED TO BE SIMPLIFIED AND CLARIFIED. THERE ARE VERY FEW PLTS I HAVE MET THAT REALLY HAVE A GOOD HANDLE ON THE REST REQUIREMENTS. IT'S JUST FAR TOO CONFUSING. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THAT HE HAD SINCE RESEARCHED THE REGS AND COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION OF THE ANALYST IN THAT THEIR FLT SCHEDULE WAS IN FACT LEGAL AFTER THE REDUCED SCHEDULED INTERIM REST PERIOD.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.