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DC9 crew was issued holding instructions 'hold as published.' they had difficulty finding, and then interping the holding pattern.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 411867 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199808 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : mss |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 15000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zbw |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : direct |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 1000 |
| ASRS Report | 411867 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were approaching mss on the following clearance: dtw...pistn...DXO020...abele.J94.eck.J594.mss.FRANX2.yul. On account of the thunderstorm in the vicinity we were given the following clearance '...proceed direct mss, hold west, as published, 20 mi legs approved, efc XA45Z.' since I had been operating primarily in canadian airspace, I had been using the ca (hi) 3/4 chart. However, I found no holding pattern 'published.' realizing that my descent to 15000 ft put me on the low charts, I grabbed the ca (low) 5/6. Again, no holding pattern 'published.' assuming that I would find it on the STAR I checked the franx 2. Again, no holding pattern at mss! My trusty first officer, meanwhile, had been using the us (hi) 7/8 chart. He reported the holding pattern was 'published' on his chart. I felt much relief, until I attempted to determine what the holding radial was -- 271 degree radial or 266 degree radial. We discussed the issue at length and were just about ready to ask ARTCC when some other weary aviator reported 'unable to located the published holding pattern' and center responded '271 degree radial off of mss.' what am I missing? Holding shouldn't be this difficult! Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the crew was given the hold only about 10 mi from the fix. Not being able to find the 'as published' pattern created a fair amount of confusion in the cockpit. After the first officer found the charted hold neither crew member was able to determine the holding radial. A min or 2 is required by the crew to determine the correct holding pattern entry and to verify it with the other crew member. This was not possible in this case.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DC9 CREW WAS ISSUED HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS 'HOLD AS PUBLISHED.' THEY HAD DIFFICULTY FINDING, AND THEN INTERPING THE HOLDING PATTERN.
Narrative: WE WERE APCHING MSS ON THE FOLLOWING CLRNC: DTW...PISTN...DXO020...ABELE.J94.ECK.J594.MSS.FRANX2.YUL. ON ACCOUNT OF THE TSTM IN THE VICINITY WE WERE GIVEN THE FOLLOWING CLRNC '...PROCEED DIRECT MSS, HOLD W, AS PUBLISHED, 20 MI LEGS APPROVED, EFC XA45Z.' SINCE I HAD BEEN OPERATING PRIMARILY IN CANADIAN AIRSPACE, I HAD BEEN USING THE CA (HI) 3/4 CHART. HOWEVER, I FOUND NO HOLDING PATTERN 'PUBLISHED.' REALIZING THAT MY DSCNT TO 15000 FT PUT ME ON THE LOW CHARTS, I GRABBED THE CA (LOW) 5/6. AGAIN, NO HOLDING PATTERN 'PUBLISHED.' ASSUMING THAT I WOULD FIND IT ON THE STAR I CHKED THE FRANX 2. AGAIN, NO HOLDING PATTERN AT MSS! MY TRUSTY FO, MEANWHILE, HAD BEEN USING THE US (HI) 7/8 CHART. HE RPTED THE HOLDING PATTERN WAS 'PUBLISHED' ON HIS CHART. I FELT MUCH RELIEF, UNTIL I ATTEMPTED TO DETERMINE WHAT THE HOLDING RADIAL WAS -- 271 DEG RADIAL OR 266 DEG RADIAL. WE DISCUSSED THE ISSUE AT LENGTH AND WERE JUST ABOUT READY TO ASK ARTCC WHEN SOME OTHER WEARY AVIATOR RPTED 'UNABLE TO LOCATED THE PUBLISHED HOLDING PATTERN' AND CTR RESPONDED '271 DEG RADIAL OFF OF MSS.' WHAT AM I MISSING? HOLDING SHOULDN'T BE THIS DIFFICULT! CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE CREW WAS GIVEN THE HOLD ONLY ABOUT 10 MI FROM THE FIX. NOT BEING ABLE TO FIND THE 'AS PUBLISHED' PATTERN CREATED A FAIR AMOUNT OF CONFUSION IN THE COCKPIT. AFTER THE FO FOUND THE CHARTED HOLD NEITHER CREW MEMBER WAS ABLE TO DETERMINE THE HOLDING RADIAL. A MIN OR 2 IS REQUIRED BY THE CREW TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT HOLDING PATTERN ENTRY AND TO VERIFY IT WITH THE OTHER CREW MEMBER. THIS WAS NOT POSSIBLE IN THIS CASE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.