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Flight crew of medium large transport complains of the STAR procedures at lax being complicated and requiring heads down on approach -- too much head work and not looking outside. Change of STAR 3 times also became a problem.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 398106 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199804 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 8000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival star : star enroute airway : lax |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 28 flight time total : 18500 flight time type : 11000 |
| ASRS Report | 398106 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
Flight from phx to lax. We are given the pdz 2 arrival. This arrival is unsafe due to the amount of head work it takes and not looking outside for traffic. But to make things worse, they switch to the civet 3 arrival, which is not as busy (socal) or bad as the pdz 2. So now, you get set up on the civet, socal approach vectors you off to join the mitts 1 arrival to land on the north side on runway 24R. This is very dangerous due to the amount of work it takes the crew to set up and adjust to the new STAR. No one is flying the aircraft or looking outside for traffic. This is the same bs STAR like the jammn in slc. What does it take to fix this problem? Maybe after foreign airlines crash over los angeles, maybe socal will get the message! This is a bull shit STAR that needs to be fixed!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF MLG COMPLAINS OF THE STAR PROCS AT LAX BEING COMPLICATED AND REQUIRING HEADS DOWN ON APCH -- TOO MUCH HEAD WORK AND NOT LOOKING OUTSIDE. CHANGE OF STAR 3 TIMES ALSO BECAME A PROB.
Narrative: FLT FROM PHX TO LAX. WE ARE GIVEN THE PDZ 2 ARR. THIS ARR IS UNSAFE DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF HEAD WORK IT TAKES AND NOT LOOKING OUTSIDE FOR TFC. BUT TO MAKE THINGS WORSE, THEY SWITCH TO THE CIVET 3 ARR, WHICH IS NOT AS BUSY (SOCAL) OR BAD AS THE PDZ 2. SO NOW, YOU GET SET UP ON THE CIVET, SOCAL APCH VECTORS YOU OFF TO JOIN THE MITTS 1 ARR TO LAND ON THE N SIDE ON RWY 24R. THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF WORK IT TAKES THE CREW TO SET UP AND ADJUST TO THE NEW STAR. NO ONE IS FLYING THE ACFT OR LOOKING OUTSIDE FOR TFC. THIS IS THE SAME BS STAR LIKE THE JAMMN IN SLC. WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO FIX THIS PROB? MAYBE AFTER FOREIGN AIRLINES CRASH OVER LOS ANGELES, MAYBE SOCAL WILL GET THE MESSAGE! THIS IS A BULL SHIT STAR THAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.