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An air carrier DC8 freighter flight crew report that they slowed without a clearance and also they did not understand their STAR altitude clearance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 390640 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199712 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 18000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Dusk |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | DC-8 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 8800 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 390649 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 9000 |
| ASRS Report | 388840 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance non adherence : far other anomaly other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | other other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
During arrival into lax we were assigned 250 KTS. Center then cleared us 'via the civet 2 arrival' (center did not specify an altitude or state to descend via the civet 2 arrival). We asked for a lower altitude and the controller restated 'cleared for the civet 2 arrival.' as per the published approach we responded: 'descending to 12000 ft,' the controller responded 'roger.' due to reasons of aircraft performance we slowed to 210 KTS during descent. Because of frequency congestion we were unable to tell the controller that we were slowing to 210 KTS. When the controller asked what speed we were maintaining, we responded '210 KTS.' the controller then threatened 'you are lucky I am not filling out paperwork on you right now.' by approximately 38-40 DME lax at 13000 ft MSL we were cleared for the ILS to runway 25L. We had not been handed off to lax tower by 1000 ft AGL. We switched frequencys and were cleared to land. After clearing runway 25L to the south we told ground control that we were 'parking on the northeast corner of the field, by an air carrier parking area.' ground control instructed us to 'taxi to parking.' to do so we would have to cross two active runways with landing traffic. We advised ground control that we were holding short and we were subsequently cleared to cross runways 25L and 25R behind landing traffic. Supplemental information from acn 388840: during arrival into lax we were assigned 250 KTS. Factors contributing to the airspeed deviation were vague and procedurally incorrect issuance of STAR clearance and frequency congestion. ATC's response to both the airspeed deviation (center) and to the taxi instructions (ground) was improper, unprofessional and dangerous.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR DC8 FREIGHTER FLC RPT THAT THEY SLOWED WITHOUT A CLRNC AND ALSO THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND THEIR STAR ALT CLRNC.
Narrative: DURING ARR INTO LAX WE WERE ASSIGNED 250 KTS. CTR THEN CLRED US 'VIA THE CIVET 2 ARR' (CTR DID NOT SPECIFY AN ALT OR STATE TO DSND VIA THE CIVET 2 ARR). WE ASKED FOR A LOWER ALT AND THE CTLR RESTATED 'CLRED FOR THE CIVET 2 ARR.' AS PER THE PUBLISHED APCH WE RESPONDED: 'DSNDING TO 12000 FT,' THE CTLR RESPONDED 'ROGER.' DUE TO REASONS OF ACFT PERFORMANCE WE SLOWED TO 210 KTS DURING DSCNT. BECAUSE OF FREQ CONGESTION WE WERE UNABLE TO TELL THE CTLR THAT WE WERE SLOWING TO 210 KTS. WHEN THE CTLR ASKED WHAT SPD WE WERE MAINTAINING, WE RESPONDED '210 KTS.' THE CTLR THEN THREATENED 'YOU ARE LUCKY I AM NOT FILLING OUT PAPERWORK ON YOU RIGHT NOW.' BY APPROX 38-40 DME LAX AT 13000 FT MSL WE WERE CLRED FOR THE ILS TO RWY 25L. WE HAD NOT BEEN HANDED OFF TO LAX TWR BY 1000 FT AGL. WE SWITCHED FREQS AND WERE CLRED TO LAND. AFTER CLRING RWY 25L TO THE S WE TOLD GND CTL THAT WE WERE 'PARKING ON THE NE CORNER OF THE FIELD, BY AN ACR PARKING AREA.' GND CTL INSTRUCTED US TO 'TAXI TO PARKING.' TO DO SO WE WOULD HAVE TO CROSS TWO ACTIVE RWYS WITH LNDG TFC. WE ADVISED GND CTL THAT WE WERE HOLDING SHORT AND WE WERE SUBSEQUENTLY CLRED TO CROSS RWYS 25L AND 25R BEHIND LNDG TFC. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 388840: DURING ARR INTO LAX WE WERE ASSIGNED 250 KTS. FACTORS CONTRIBUTING TO THE AIRSPD DEV WERE VAGUE AND PROCEDURALLY INCORRECT ISSUANCE OF STAR CLRNC AND FREQ CONGESTION. ATC'S RESPONSE TO BOTH THE AIRSPD DEV (CTR) AND TO THE TAXI INSTRUCTIONS (GND) WAS IMPROPER, UNPROFESSIONAL AND DANGEROUS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.