<< >> NASA ASRS Report 377910, August 1997

Lear flight crew fails to make a crossing restr as depicted on the arrival for runway 24 at yyz, on. Reporter, PIC PNF, cites confusing lines on chart and non standard format.

Attributes
ACN	377910
Time
Date	199708
Day	Fri
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : yyz
State Reference	ON
Altitude	msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 13000
Environment
Flight Conditions	Mixed
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : czyz
Operator	other
Make Model Name	Gates Learjet Corp Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 135
Flight Phase	descent other
Route In Use	arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : czyz
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 2500 flight time type : 2000
ASRS Report	377910
Person 2
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : overshoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation other

Narrative:

We were cleared via the profile descent for runway 24 at cyyz. Our last altitude assignment was 13000 ft. When the controller cleared us for the profile descent, I didn't see the restr to cross the VOR (ywt) between 13000 ft and 17000 ft. All I saw was the 11000 ft restr. So I told the copilot, who was flying, to descend to 11000 ft. The 13000 ft to 17000 ft restr is not clear. There are several lines that point in every direction near the VOR and the text that describes the restr. If cyyz must continue to use this profile, I think it should be laid out better. There was a second learjet behind us that also had trouble interpreting this clearance. Over all, I think that cyyz makes itself overly complicated. Even if they have a better way to do something, I think that they should do it the same way as every place else.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LEAR FLC FAILS TO MAKE A XING RESTR AS DEPICTED ON THE ARR FOR RWY 24 AT YYZ, ON. RPTR, PIC PNF, CITES CONFUSING LINES ON CHART AND NON STANDARD FORMAT.

Narrative: WE WERE CLRED VIA THE PROFILE DSCNT FOR RWY 24 AT CYYZ. OUR LAST ALT ASSIGNMENT WAS 13000 FT. WHEN THE CTLR CLRED US FOR THE PROFILE DSCNT, I DIDN'T SEE THE RESTR TO CROSS THE VOR (YWT) BTWN 13000 FT AND 17000 FT. ALL I SAW WAS THE 11000 FT RESTR. SO I TOLD THE COPLT, WHO WAS FLYING, TO DSND TO 11000 FT. THE 13000 FT TO 17000 FT RESTR IS NOT CLR. THERE ARE SEVERAL LINES THAT POINT IN EVERY DIRECTION NEAR THE VOR AND THE TEXT THAT DESCRIBES THE RESTR. IF CYYZ MUST CONTINUE TO USE THIS PROFILE, I THINK IT SHOULD BE LAID OUT BETTER. THERE WAS A SECOND LEARJET BEHIND US THAT ALSO HAD TROUBLE INTERPRETING THIS CLRNC. OVER ALL, I THINK THAT CYYZ MAKES ITSELF OVERLY COMPLICATED. EVEN IF THEY HAVE A BETTER WAY TO DO SOMETHING, I THINK THAT THEY SHOULD DO IT THE SAME WAY AS EVERY PLACE ELSE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.