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DC9 on STAR to dfw received descent clearance to cross a point at 15000 ft when only 8 mi from the fix. Unable to comply account late clearance. General complaint of the STAR chart presentation.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 370524 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199705 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : dfw |
| State Reference | TX |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 24000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zfw |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 10500 flight time type : 1300 |
| ASRS Report | 370524 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
The following describes 2 items: 1) our flight was from msp- dfw on may/xx/97. We had descended to 24000 ft from an earlier clearance from ZFW and then given a clearance to 15000 ft. However, when given the 15000 ft clearance it was to cross 40 mi north of (? Don't have particular STAR with me) at 15000 ft and we were only 48 mi out when this particular clearance was issued. 8 NM to lose 9000 ft in a DC9 full of passenger? I don't think so! We told the controller that this wouldn't work and he stated to do our best. To go hand in hand with the above situation is the fact that the dfw stars and sids are much too busy with various crossing and speed restrs. It also intermixes turbojet and non turbojet boxes, that look the same when you're bouncing around in the sky. I strongly believe that dfw could greatly simplify these sids and stars to avoid such confusion. The controllers and other pilots were commenting on how confusing these new procedures have been. Please help!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DC9 ON STAR TO DFW RECEIVED DSCNT CLRNC TO CROSS A POINT AT 15000 FT WHEN ONLY 8 MI FROM THE FIX. UNABLE TO COMPLY ACCOUNT LATE CLRNC. GENERAL COMPLAINT OF THE STAR CHART PRESENTATION.
Narrative: THE FOLLOWING DESCRIBES 2 ITEMS: 1) OUR FLT WAS FROM MSP- DFW ON MAY/XX/97. WE HAD DSNDED TO 24000 FT FROM AN EARLIER CLRNC FROM ZFW AND THEN GIVEN A CLRNC TO 15000 FT. HOWEVER, WHEN GIVEN THE 15000 FT CLRNC IT WAS TO CROSS 40 MI N OF (? DON'T HAVE PARTICULAR STAR WITH ME) AT 15000 FT AND WE WERE ONLY 48 MI OUT WHEN THIS PARTICULAR CLRNC WAS ISSUED. 8 NM TO LOSE 9000 FT IN A DC9 FULL OF PAX? I DON'T THINK SO! WE TOLD THE CTLR THAT THIS WOULDN'T WORK AND HE STATED TO DO OUR BEST. TO GO HAND IN HAND WITH THE ABOVE SIT IS THE FACT THAT THE DFW STARS AND SIDS ARE MUCH TOO BUSY WITH VARIOUS XING AND SPD RESTRS. IT ALSO INTERMIXES TURBOJET AND NON TURBOJET BOXES, THAT LOOK THE SAME WHEN YOU'RE BOUNCING AROUND IN THE SKY. I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT DFW COULD GREATLY SIMPLIFY THESE SIDS AND STARS TO AVOID SUCH CONFUSION. THE CTLRS AND OTHER PLTS WERE COMMENTING ON HOW CONFUSING THESE NEW PROCS HAVE BEEN. PLEASE HELP!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.