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Flight crew of an air carrier cargo aircraft failed to clarify an incomplete clearance for a visual approach which did not include instruction for the altitude and route prior to the approach. Reporter accepted, thought it was unusual, but did not clarify with ATC. Meantime, ATC supervisor caught the error after the fact and explained to reporter on the ground that it was an error by an ATC trainee.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 361714 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199702 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : day |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 7500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : day tower : sgr |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 130 flight time total : 9500 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 361714 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Dayton approach cleared us for a visual approach out of 3000 ft. We were at 7500 ft 10 mi southeast of the field. At this time I should have asked for clarification of what she meant. If we didn't start maneuvering for the visual approach until out of 3000 ft we would have been over the top of the field. We reported our downwind out of +/-5000 ft and continued. Upon landing we were told to contact dayton ATC. After conversing with approach, he said there wasn't a problem, but since they had a trainee in that approach position, he just wanted to clarify the situation and educate us on the problem. When approach gave me that odd clearance, I should have asked for a clarification from them when I said to my first officer that that sounds like an odd clearance. I knew it at the time and should have clarified it right then.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF AN ACR CARGO ACFT FAILED TO CLARIFY AN INCOMPLETE CLRNC FOR A VISUAL APCH WHICH DID NOT INCLUDE INSTRUCTION FOR THE ALT AND RTE PRIOR TO THE APCH. RPTR ACCEPTED, THOUGHT IT WAS UNUSUAL, BUT DID NOT CLARIFY WITH ATC. MEANTIME, ATC SUPVR CAUGHT THE ERROR AFTER THE FACT AND EXPLAINED TO RPTR ON THE GND THAT IT WAS AN ERROR BY AN ATC TRAINEE.
Narrative: DAYTON APCH CLRED US FOR A VISUAL APCH OUT OF 3000 FT. WE WERE AT 7500 FT 10 MI SE OF THE FIELD. AT THIS TIME I SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION OF WHAT SHE MEANT. IF WE DIDN'T START MANEUVERING FOR THE VISUAL APCH UNTIL OUT OF 3000 FT WE WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER THE TOP OF THE FIELD. WE RPTED OUR DOWNWIND OUT OF +/-5000 FT AND CONTINUED. UPON LNDG WE WERE TOLD TO CONTACT DAYTON ATC. AFTER CONVERSING WITH APCH, HE SAID THERE WASN'T A PROB, BUT SINCE THEY HAD A TRAINEE IN THAT APCH POS, HE JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THE SIT AND EDUCATE US ON THE PROB. WHEN APCH GAVE ME THAT ODD CLRNC, I SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR A CLARIFICATION FROM THEM WHEN I SAID TO MY FO THAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN ODD CLRNC. I KNEW IT AT THE TIME AND SHOULD HAVE CLARIFIED IT RIGHT THEN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.