Narrative:

After passing creso intersection on the creso arrival to las we were given a northerly vector prior to bld VOR and at about 10 DME from the las VOR were told by las approach control to look for traffic 12-1 O'clock position moving wbound on final to runway 25L. We were given descent clearance from 10000 ft to 8000 ft and then further clearance down to 6000 ft. We advised approach we had the traffic a min or two later passing from 12 to 11 O'clock position. At that point we were cleared a visual approach to runway 25L to follow the traffic and told to maintain 170 KTS. Having operated into las regularly for many yrs we were well aware of the TCA/class B airspace confines and had briefed it just a few mins beforehand so as to stay within it until on the GS within 10 DME of the las VOR at which point it extends to the surface. Since we were quite high and within 10 DME and therefore only 8 mi to touchdown I continued my descent on base leg to maintain 4800 ft MSL till on the localizer. We were now about 8 DME at 4800-4900 ft and about to turn final (a 90 degree turn on) with the GS fully deflected down. In other words we were high and doing 170 KTS but still in a good position for a normal landing since las approach always keeps everyone higher than most other airports. At this point approach called and asked if we were still at 6000 ft. The first officer (PNF) replied no, that we were descending to turn final and approach quite annoyedly replied that we were only cleared to 6000 ft till final and that if we could not follow her instructions then we should not have accepted her clearance. At this same time she switched us to tower and we continued our approach and landed on runway 25L. I believe the problem arose with the original clearance to 8000 ft and then to 6000 ft. At that time we were told to look for our traffic and we did not find him for another min or so. This was followed by a lengthy clearance that evidently cleared us to maintain both 6000 ft till final and 170 KTS. I only heard the 170 KTS to be maintained. I think the clearance could have been better phrased with emphasis on the 6000 ft. If we had to maintain 6000 ft till literally on the localizer we'd have been at 6000 ft at 8 DME which would have put us very high on glide path (6.3 mi from end of runway) or over 2000 ft high at the equivalent of the OM. I think this was an unnecessary and poor clearance and the controller should have known better. We were not in the vicinity of any of the hills south and southeast of las, it was cavu, and I was very surprised by the original clearance which we were given for no apparent reason. I really do not understand why we were given the 6000 ft restr to final since we were high anyway and well within class B airspace and nowhere near any terrain, aircraft or noise sensitive areas. The copilot thought we were within the confines of final approach and perfectly executing what we were instructed and cleared to do safely. I think the problem rests with this particular approach facility and their SOP of keeping everyone abnormally high. In our case we would have been in all probability too high to shoot a normal approach and for reasons still unbeknownst to me and my crew.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ACR WAS VECTORED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25L WITH A SPD RESTR AND AN ALT RESTR OF 6000 FT UNTIL ESTABLISHED ON FINAL APCH. THE FLC MISINTERPED THE CLRNC AND DSNDED PRIOR TO INTERCEPTING THE FINAL APCH COURSE AND THE APCH CTLR WAS ANNOYED.

Narrative: AFTER PASSING CRESO INTXN ON THE CRESO ARR TO LAS WE WERE GIVEN A NORTHERLY VECTOR PRIOR TO BLD VOR AND AT ABOUT 10 DME FROM THE LAS VOR WERE TOLD BY LAS APCH CTL TO LOOK FOR TFC 12-1 O'CLOCK POS MOVING WBOUND ON FINAL TO RWY 25L. WE WERE GIVEN DSCNT CLRNC FROM 10000 FT TO 8000 FT AND THEN FURTHER CLRNC DOWN TO 6000 FT. WE ADVISED APCH WE HAD THE TFC A MIN OR TWO LATER PASSING FROM 12 TO 11 O'CLOCK POS. AT THAT POINT WE WERE CLRED A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25L TO FOLLOW THE TFC AND TOLD TO MAINTAIN 170 KTS. HAVING OPERATED INTO LAS REGULARLY FOR MANY YRS WE WERE WELL AWARE OF THE TCA/CLASS B AIRSPACE CONFINES AND HAD BRIEFED IT JUST A FEW MINS BEFOREHAND SO AS TO STAY WITHIN IT UNTIL ON THE GS WITHIN 10 DME OF THE LAS VOR AT WHICH POINT IT EXTENDS TO THE SURFACE. SINCE WE WERE QUITE HIGH AND WITHIN 10 DME AND THEREFORE ONLY 8 MI TO TOUCHDOWN I CONTINUED MY DSCNT ON BASE LEG TO MAINTAIN 4800 FT MSL TILL ON THE LOC. WE WERE NOW ABOUT 8 DME AT 4800-4900 FT AND ABOUT TO TURN FINAL (A 90 DEG TURN ON) WITH THE GS FULLY DEFLECTED DOWN. IN OTHER WORDS WE WERE HIGH AND DOING 170 KTS BUT STILL IN A GOOD POS FOR A NORMAL LNDG SINCE LAS APCH ALWAYS KEEPS EVERYONE HIGHER THAN MOST OTHER ARPTS. AT THIS POINT APCH CALLED AND ASKED IF WE WERE STILL AT 6000 FT. THE FO (PNF) REPLIED NO, THAT WE WERE DSNDING TO TURN FINAL AND APCH QUITE ANNOYEDLY REPLIED THAT WE WERE ONLY CLRED TO 6000 FT TILL FINAL AND THAT IF WE COULD NOT FOLLOW HER INSTRUCTIONS THEN WE SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCEPTED HER CLRNC. AT THIS SAME TIME SHE SWITCHED US TO TWR AND WE CONTINUED OUR APCH AND LANDED ON RWY 25L. I BELIEVE THE PROB AROSE WITH THE ORIGINAL CLRNC TO 8000 FT AND THEN TO 6000 FT. AT THAT TIME WE WERE TOLD TO LOOK FOR OUR TFC AND WE DID NOT FIND HIM FOR ANOTHER MIN OR SO. THIS WAS FOLLOWED BY A LENGTHY CLRNC THAT EVIDENTLY CLRED US TO MAINTAIN BOTH 6000 FT TILL FINAL AND 170 KTS. I ONLY HEARD THE 170 KTS TO BE MAINTAINED. I THINK THE CLRNC COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER PHRASED WITH EMPHASIS ON THE 6000 FT. IF WE HAD TO MAINTAIN 6000 FT TILL LITERALLY ON THE LOC WE'D HAVE BEEN AT 6000 FT AT 8 DME WHICH WOULD HAVE PUT US VERY HIGH ON GLIDE PATH (6.3 MI FROM END OF RWY) OR OVER 2000 FT HIGH AT THE EQUIVALENT OF THE OM. I THINK THIS WAS AN UNNECESSARY AND POOR CLRNC AND THE CTLR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER. WE WERE NOT IN THE VICINITY OF ANY OF THE HILLS S AND SE OF LAS, IT WAS CAVU, AND I WAS VERY SURPRISED BY THE ORIGINAL CLRNC WHICH WE WERE GIVEN FOR NO APPARENT REASON. I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE WERE GIVEN THE 6000 FT RESTR TO FINAL SINCE WE WERE HIGH ANYWAY AND WELL WITHIN CLASS B AIRSPACE AND NOWHERE NEAR ANY TERRAIN, ACFT OR NOISE SENSITIVE AREAS. THE COPLT THOUGHT WE WERE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF FINAL APCH AND PERFECTLY EXECUTING WHAT WE WERE INSTRUCTED AND CLRED TO DO SAFELY. I THINK THE PROB RESTS WITH THIS PARTICULAR APCH FACILITY AND THEIR SOP OF KEEPING EVERYONE ABNORMALLY HIGH. IN OUR CASE WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN ALL PROBABILITY TOO HIGH TO SHOOT A NORMAL APCH AND FOR REASONS STILL UNBEKNOWNST TO ME AND MY CREW.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.