An observer riding jump seat in the B757 commented that procedures that require aircraft to consiste...

Attributes
ACN	351141
Time
Date	199610
Day	Fri
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : dfw
State Reference	TX
Altitude	msl bound lower : 1000 msl bound upper : 1000
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : dfw
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	observation : observer
ASRS Report	351141
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other other : unspecified
Resolutory Action	none taken : unable
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

On oct/xx/96 I observed the arrival into dfw from the jumpseat of B757. STAR altitudes were not applicable because of our arrival into the area at FL200 due to high altitude turbulence. At covie we were vectored off the STAR for the ILS runway 17C. WX at time of approach was 200 ft and 1/2 mi visibility. Our aircraft was held high, 6000 ft at 16 DME, and cleared for procedure from full scale deflection high. After maximum performance descent, we intercepted the GS at approximately 1000 ft AGL. During the time of our vectors, I heard no less than 3 aircraft call for missed approach because they were too high to descend. All 3 of these aircraft were being vectored for runway 17L. In 2 cases the arrival controller stated, I have no place to turn you, continue approach, contact tower and tell them you are going missed. The third aircraft was broken out to the west to allow a descent to runway 18R. On more than 1 occasion, I heard the controller state that there was no room to maneuver aircraft for descent under the new procedures. In my opinion, procedures that require aircraft to consistently intercept the GS from above -- especially when WX is at minimums -- are unsafe.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN OBSERVER RIDING JUMP SEAT IN THE B757 COMMENTED THAT PROCS THAT REQUIRE ACFT TO CONSISTENTLY INTERCEPT THE GS FROM ABOVE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WX IS AT MINIMUMS, ARE UNSAFE.

Narrative: ON OCT/XX/96 I OBSERVED THE ARR INTO DFW FROM THE JUMPSEAT OF B757. STAR ALTS WERE NOT APPLICABLE BECAUSE OF OUR ARR INTO THE AREA AT FL200 DUE TO HIGH ALT TURB. AT COVIE WE WERE VECTORED OFF THE STAR FOR THE ILS RWY 17C. WX AT TIME OF APCH WAS 200 FT AND 1/2 MI VISIBILITY. OUR ACFT WAS HELD HIGH, 6000 FT AT 16 DME, AND CLRED FOR PROC FROM FULL SCALE DEFLECTION HIGH. AFTER MAX PERFORMANCE DSCNT, WE INTERCEPTED THE GS AT APPROX 1000 FT AGL. DURING THE TIME OF OUR VECTORS, I HEARD NO LESS THAN 3 ACFT CALL FOR MISSED APCH BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO HIGH TO DSND. ALL 3 OF THESE ACFT WERE BEING VECTORED FOR RWY 17L. IN 2 CASES THE ARR CTLR STATED, I HAVE NO PLACE TO TURN YOU, CONTINUE APCH, CONTACT TWR AND TELL THEM YOU ARE GOING MISSED. THE THIRD ACFT WAS BROKEN OUT TO THE W TO ALLOW A DSCNT TO RWY 18R. ON MORE THAN 1 OCCASION, I HEARD THE CTLR STATE THAT THERE WAS NO ROOM TO MANEUVER ACFT FOR DSCNT UNDER THE NEW PROCS. IN MY OPINION, PROCS THAT REQUIRE ACFT TO CONSISTENTLY INTERCEPT THE GS FROM ABOVE -- ESPECIALLY WHEN WX IS AT MINIMUMS -- ARE UNSAFE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

An observer riding jump seat in the B757 commented that procedures that require aircraft to consistently intercept the GS from above, especially when WX is at minimums, are unsafe.