Narrative:

We were inbound to sfo from lax. Because of earlier low ceilings, traffic had backed up on the approach to sfo. While with ZOA we received instructions to hold at skunk (on the big sur arrival) with an efc of XA30Z -- about 30 mins of holding. We actually left skunk exactly at XA30, to continue the big sur arrival, and were turned over to bay approach. At this point, what usually happens happened -- we were given delay vectors back and forth west of the hills near osi VOR. My problem is this: when on delay vectors we have no idea how long we will be holding and cannot plan our fuel accordingly. Bay approach should just put us in another holding stack over, say, menlo intersection, with proper efc's, then pull people from the bottom of the stack as space permits. That's the way it's done in many other places (particularly in western europe) and it's what bay approach should be doing. We were never in a low fuel situation this time, but other people on the frequency were. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated he was flying a B737-300 or 500, he does not remember which. When this analyst explained to the reporter the reason was the approach does not normally hold aircraft but is actively positioning the aircraft to fill the slots. The reporter stated he had a controller friend who thought it would be easier and better if the TRACON had a couple of the bottom holding slots at boulder for example. The answer is TRACON has tried it and though it may be easier for TRACON the slots cannot be filled as precisely from holding at boulder as they can from a downwind in the vicinity of osi. Filling the slots as precisely as possible is the aim of the game and not what is easiest.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AFTER FLYING A 30 MIN HOLD WITH AN EFC THE FLT AT THE EFC WAS CLRED TO CONTINUE BY CTR AND HANDED OFF TO APCH WHO ASSIGNED DELAY VECTORS BEFORE CLRING THE FLT FOR THE APCH. THE RPTR FELT THE DELAY VECTORS DIMINISHED THE PLTS' ABILITY TO PLAN FOR FUEL CONSUMPTION.

Narrative: WE WERE INBOUND TO SFO FROM LAX. BECAUSE OF EARLIER LOW CEILINGS, TFC HAD BACKED UP ON THE APCH TO SFO. WHILE WITH ZOA WE RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS TO HOLD AT SKUNK (ON THE BIG SUR ARR) WITH AN EFC OF XA30Z -- ABOUT 30 MINS OF HOLDING. WE ACTUALLY LEFT SKUNK EXACTLY AT XA30, TO CONTINUE THE BIG SUR ARR, AND WERE TURNED OVER TO BAY APCH. AT THIS POINT, WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS HAPPENED -- WE WERE GIVEN DELAY VECTORS BACK AND FORTH W OF THE HILLS NEAR OSI VOR. MY PROB IS THIS: WHEN ON DELAY VECTORS WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG WE WILL BE HOLDING AND CANNOT PLAN OUR FUEL ACCORDINGLY. BAY APCH SHOULD JUST PUT US IN ANOTHER HOLDING STACK OVER, SAY, MENLO INTXN, WITH PROPER EFC'S, THEN PULL PEOPLE FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE STACK AS SPACE PERMITS. THAT'S THE WAY IT'S DONE IN MANY OTHER PLACES (PARTICULARLY IN WESTERN EUROPE) AND IT'S WHAT BAY APCH SHOULD BE DOING. WE WERE NEVER IN A LOW FUEL SIT THIS TIME, BUT OTHER PEOPLE ON THE FREQ WERE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED HE WAS FLYING A B737-300 OR 500, HE DOES NOT REMEMBER WHICH. WHEN THIS ANALYST EXPLAINED TO THE RPTR THE REASON WAS THE APCH DOES NOT NORMALLY HOLD ACFT BUT IS ACTIVELY POSITIONING THE ACFT TO FILL THE SLOTS. THE RPTR STATED HE HAD A CTLR FRIEND WHO THOUGHT IT WOULD BE EASIER AND BETTER IF THE TRACON HAD A COUPLE OF THE BOTTOM HOLDING SLOTS AT BOULDER FOR EXAMPLE. THE ANSWER IS TRACON HAS TRIED IT AND THOUGH IT MAY BE EASIER FOR TRACON THE SLOTS CANNOT BE FILLED AS PRECISELY FROM HOLDING AT BOULDER AS THEY CAN FROM A DOWNWIND IN THE VICINITY OF OSI. FILLING THE SLOTS AS PRECISELY AS POSSIBLE IS THE AIM OF THE GAME AND NOT WHAT IS EASIEST.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.