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Controller report and flight crew report regarding aircraft which climbed to FL350 then could not maintain speed. They requested lower and told unable due to traffic below. They descended. Descent without clearance. Altitude deviation.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 341232 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199607 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : gve |
| State Reference | VA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 33000 msl bound upper : 35000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Dusk |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other descent other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : radar |
| Qualification | controller : radar |
| Experience | controller radar : 7 |
| ASRS Report | 341232 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 10000 |
| ASRS Report | 341230 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 24000 vertical : 1000 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Air carrier medium large transport took forever to climb to FL350. He was there (at FL350) for about 1 min when he called on frequency and said he had to descend. I told the flight 'unable' and pointed out several pieces of traffic that were in conflict with him at FL330. About 30 seconds later medium large transport transmits that he will be descending immediately. I observe that he is barely clear of air carrier off to his left side. I tell him 'ok' and ask if there is a problem. The reply was, 'too hot, too heavy, we can't keep our speed.' perhaps the flight crew should have double checked their 'vitals' (weight, fuel, temperature) before asking for an altitude that the plane can't fly. A 10 second variation in times for either aircraft could have resulted in a possible catastrophe. This descent did result in a situation of less than standard separation. Supplemental information from acn 341230: upon reaching 35000 ft, airspeed began to deteriorate, captain requested descent clearance. ZDC asked if 'there was something we should know about.' captain responded that 'the temperature was warmer than standard' and we were requesting lower. We were cleared to FL260 by center. Problem -- temperature warmer than standard as reported.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CTLR RPT AND FLC RPT REGARDING ACFT WHICH CLBED TO FL350 THEN COULD NOT MAINTAIN SPD. THEY REQUESTED LOWER AND TOLD UNABLE DUE TO TFC BELOW. THEY DSNDED. DSCNT WITHOUT CLRNC. ALTDEV.
Narrative: ACR MLG TOOK FOREVER TO CLB TO FL350. HE WAS THERE (AT FL350) FOR ABOUT 1 MIN WHEN HE CALLED ON FREQ AND SAID HE HAD TO DSND. I TOLD THE FLT 'UNABLE' AND POINTED OUT SEVERAL PIECES OF TFC THAT WERE IN CONFLICT WITH HIM AT FL330. ABOUT 30 SECONDS LATER MLG XMITS THAT HE WILL BE DSNDING IMMEDIATELY. I OBSERVE THAT HE IS BARELY CLR OF ACR OFF TO HIS L SIDE. I TELL HIM 'OK' AND ASK IF THERE IS A PROB. THE REPLY WAS, 'TOO HOT, TOO HVY, WE CAN'T KEEP OUR SPD.' PERHAPS THE FLC SHOULD HAVE DOUBLE CHKED THEIR 'VITALS' (WT, FUEL, TEMP) BEFORE ASKING FOR AN ALT THAT THE PLANE CAN'T FLY. A 10 SECOND VARIATION IN TIMES FOR EITHER ACFT COULD HAVE RESULTED IN A POSSIBLE CATASTROPHE. THIS DSCNT DID RESULT IN A SIT OF LTSS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 341230: UPON REACHING 35000 FT, AIRSPD BEGAN TO DETERIORATE, CAPT REQUESTED DSCNT CLRNC. ZDC ASKED IF 'THERE WAS SOMETHING WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT.' CAPT RESPONDED THAT 'THE TEMP WAS WARMER THAN STANDARD' AND WE WERE REQUESTING LOWER. WE WERE CLRED TO FL260 BY CTR. PROB -- TEMP WARMER THAN STANDARD AS RPTED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.