 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
See and avoid concept -- visual separation. An air carrier is given a visual separation climb, at night, to climb through an altitude occupied by another air carrier. Both aircraft receive 'RA's' and take evasive action.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 328046 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199602 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : sby |
| State Reference | MD |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 13000 msl bound upper : 14700 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Dash 8-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : private pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 246 flight time total : 8374 flight time type : 5814 |
| ASRS Report | 328046 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 3000 vertical : 700 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Jet traffic was pointed out to us and we stated we had visual contact. We were instructed to maintain visual contact and climb through their altitude (14000 ft) from 13000 ft to 16000 ft. We initiated a smooth climb, and when 500 ft below their altitude we got a TA. We increased the rate of climb so as to avoid an RA, but the jet started to climb (due to an RA). We got an RA to descend (which we did not follow so as to avoid negative G's) and leveled off at about 14700 ft. We had the traffic in sight the whole time and leveled off because we were climbing. In retrospect, we should not have accepted the clearance without the jet also having us in sight. I don't think the controller realized how fast the jet was going, and how quickly we were converging. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter was flying a de haviland dash 8-100 aircraft when he was offered a visual climb by the ARTCC controller. The reporter saw the air carrier jet whose course was about 90 degrees to his and he thought that there would be no problem. However, as he climbed he realized that the other aircraft was much faster than he thought. The captain said that he does not think that he will accept visual climbs and dscnts after this experience and particularly not at night. The air carrier captain was adamant that a near miss had occurred. The reporter does not think that the aircraft came that close, but is not very sure. He is also not sure what type of air carrier jet was involved.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SEE AND AVOID CONCEPT -- VISUAL SEPARATION. AN ACR IS GIVEN A VISUAL SEPARATION CLB, AT NIGHT, TO CLB THROUGH AN ALT OCCUPIED BY ANOTHER ACR. BOTH ACFT RECEIVE 'RA'S' AND TAKE EVASIVE ACTION.
Narrative: JET TFC WAS POINTED OUT TO US AND WE STATED WE HAD VISUAL CONTACT. WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO MAINTAIN VISUAL CONTACT AND CLB THROUGH THEIR ALT (14000 FT) FROM 13000 FT TO 16000 FT. WE INITIATED A SMOOTH CLB, AND WHEN 500 FT BELOW THEIR ALT WE GOT A TA. WE INCREASED THE RATE OF CLB SO AS TO AVOID AN RA, BUT THE JET STARTED TO CLB (DUE TO AN RA). WE GOT AN RA TO DSND (WHICH WE DID NOT FOLLOW SO AS TO AVOID NEGATIVE G'S) AND LEVELED OFF AT ABOUT 14700 FT. WE HAD THE TFC IN SIGHT THE WHOLE TIME AND LEVELED OFF BECAUSE WE WERE CLBING. IN RETROSPECT, WE SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCEPTED THE CLRNC WITHOUT THE JET ALSO HAVING US IN SIGHT. I DON'T THINK THE CTLR REALIZED HOW FAST THE JET WAS GOING, AND HOW QUICKLY WE WERE CONVERGING. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR WAS FLYING A DE HAVILAND DASH 8-100 ACFT WHEN HE WAS OFFERED A VISUAL CLB BY THE ARTCC CTLR. THE RPTR SAW THE ACR JET WHOSE COURSE WAS ABOUT 90 DEGS TO HIS AND HE THOUGHT THAT THERE WOULD BE NO PROB. HOWEVER, AS HE CLBED HE REALIZED THAT THE OTHER ACFT WAS MUCH FASTER THAN HE THOUGHT. THE CAPT SAID THAT HE DOES NOT THINK THAT HE WILL ACCEPT VISUAL CLBS AND DSCNTS AFTER THIS EXPERIENCE AND PARTICULARLY NOT AT NIGHT. THE ACR CAPT WAS ADAMANT THAT A NEAR MISS HAD OCCURRED. THE RPTR DOES NOT THINK THAT THE ACFT CAME THAT CLOSE, BUT IS NOT VERY SURE. HE IS ALSO NOT SURE WHAT TYPE OF ACR JET WAS INVOLVED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.